Especially with the rise of “ghost postings” so quantity over quality is greater than ever these days
Cover latter? Is it the 50ties? If a company wants a cover letter, I ain’t applying. You got my CV. Need more info? Call me, the number is on the CV.
This is what AI is for. If they’re going to use it for screening applications, I’m going to use it to write my cover letter.
Their robots can talk to my robots.
I guess this depends where you live and what professions your are applying for. In my region and field, a cover letter goes with saying. It always has been like that, ever since I was looking for summer jobs, and continues to be the standard.
Plot twist: make a one size fits all resume, but have AI tailor it and transmit it everywhere.
As someone from outside the US, I have no clue wtf is a cover letter, this isn’t a thing in Brazil, you just send your resume.
I’m Australian and was always told the cover letter was unnecessary, especially if your CV has a bio.
The cover letter was for additional information not covered by the resume - name dropping the manager at the company you know who inspired you to apply, explaining why it appears your changing industries, justifying “overqualifications”, mentioning a personal hobby that’s relevant to the industry and isn’t technical work experience.
Basically the things you plan to bring up in the interview to wow them, you can introduce them while introducing yourself in a cover letter.
But if your resume lines up with the position description, you don’t need a cover letter.
Basically I was told a cover letter is necessary when you’re a burnt out nurse or teacher applying to be a cashier at kmart to avoid having your resume immediately thrown out.
That said. I’ve literally never written one, even as a serial industry hopper. If there’s no email address to send my resume too, then the system is too auto for a cover letter and they don’t want to read it anyway, if there is an email address, just include a few lines of a short cover letter in the body text of the email before attaching your resume.
It isn’t a thing in the US anymore either.
It’s totally a thing here too. I’ve been asked for one when I apply for a job.
Maybe it’s the shit market that I’m applying to, but when I apply for a retail job, they want a fully filled out application (that auto fill always Borks, so I have to type everything in manually) as well as a cover sheet and some places want you to take a personality quiz that you have to pass for hr to even see your application. I couldn’t imagine applying to 4 jobs a day, let alone 40.
I imagine we are talking about corporate postings where you just paste a link to LinkedIn and that does most of the work?
if indeed doesn’t allow me to quick apply, it’s gotta be a dream job to even want to go to their site and do even more work.
Jesus that sounds so demeaning. I haven’t had to apply for a job in about 15 years now. All networking, and I was poached and offered my current job. Union now, so I’m set. I don’t remember having to jump through so many hoops when I was younger and applying for a job, but recently I passed by a Wendy’s and there must have been 50 people lined up outside with resumes because there was a job posting. That many people for one burger job, that’s hard times.
Unless something really good comes up yeah. Also most of the time I just put my generic CV up and get calls from recruiters. So the actual people hiring don’t even see my CV
Tried both, tried a normal resume and a resume with an ATS-focused layout, tried AI-based tools meant to help you improve your resume, and a few other things, and after more than forty applications in six months, what finally got me an interview and then very quickly an offer was an internal referral from a friend/ex-coworker. For context, I am a software engineer.
Fun fact: the average response time after submitting an application was 48 days.
Same here. I changed my LinkedIn status and a former coworker pinged me and said he set up a Discord for other job seekers. I joined and posted my skills and desired role and he forwarded my resume to his employer because they were in the early stages of finding someone for that role.
After a week of interviews I had a new job. Of the 60 or so applications I sent to similar roles during that week only about half replied, and all of those were rejections.
Yeah, as I’m going to move across my country I’m basically calling on everyone I know to give me references there. I figure it’s time that my extroversion help me instead of hurting me like usual
and after more than forty applications in six months
That’s not “spray and pray”
I just started a job search yesterday and I’m already at about 40 applications. My job search before this one I went from search start to offer in ~2 weeks w/ ~200 applications in, all manual. Though my industry is IT, so I do have a bit of flexibility as far as roles go, but still 6 applications/month is a bit on the low side IMO
It really depends what job it is.
Never have done a cover letter. Just seems like pandering pretentious tripe
This may be Australia specific, but do job postings not spell out what they want in other countries?
Like, job postings in Australia (these days) are: this is the job, here are the key selection criteria, please provide us a resume and cover letter (or just a resume, or cover letter optional, etc). Even down to maximum number of pages sometimes.
They just tell you, and part of the way they weed people out is if they fail to follow what’s written (simple way to weed out anyone paying no attention).
Do other countries just have to GUESS what the recruitment managers want at each company?
Only about 3 out of 10 jobs I have applied for stipulated a cover letter and those 3 were trying to appear bigger than they were in other ways
I don’t think I’ve crafted a cover letter since we stopped sending resumes via snail mail.
Stop putting cover letters on your resume. Recruiters spend 7 seconds or less on 1 resume. A cover page essentially is a skip button because we don’t see any pertinent information and move on.
Resumes should be 1 page with a layout that attracts attention but isn’t distracting. Sentences should be structured like bullet points, short, sweet, and to the point.
I mean you say that, but I got my last amazing job because I mentioned pertinent info in my cover letter that resonated with the recruiter. I wouldn’t have got it if I just sent my resume.
I know it’s just anecdotal but hey
There are definitely different workflows for different recruiters, especially across industries.
Most of the places I applied to in my most recent job hunt had separate places to upload a cover letter and resume. If they didn’t ask for a cover letter, I didn’t write one, but I do see an argument to append one to your resume anyway.
Seriously, the job I have now requried a masters degree. My cover letter and my 10+ years of specfic experience got them to talk to me even though I only have an associates degree.
Now I am the go-to for search commitees in my department, and the only thing worse then no cover letter is when folks use a form one and forget to change ot or fill in the blanks.
I think they’re saying a cover letter is good. But some people’s “resumes” are more than one page with the first page being a cover letter. Almost all job apps have a separate upload for cover letters. If you’re applying in person or over email the rules are completely different.
I feel like this is very situation dependent.
That may be the case in your company or industry, but not everywhere.
In my experience there’s been a big difference between a general resume I’m uploading to a place like a LinkedIn or Indeed (and letting the recruiters come to me), using that uploaded resume to apply to job postings on that site, and sending resume/application to specific companies on their site.
For the first one, hell no, no cover letter. How would that even work? No cover letter is better than a generic one.
For applying for specific postings on these sites? For me it depends on just how good the opportunity is. If I feel like there’s some sort of special connection that makes me tailor made for the role, the money is great, it’s doing really interesting work, or a company I really want to work for? Absolutely I’ll include a cover letter. I’m just looking to get out of a shit job, or the role doesn’t really move the needle, but I think it might be a good fit? Nah, just hit that quick apply button and move on.
But if I’m reaching out to a company directly?
Cover letter every time (unless they specifically say not to). If they don’t want it, they won’t read it, but I’ve never felt like it hurt my chances, and in a few interviews, they’ve specifically mentioned something about it.
I wouldn’t say situation dependent but this is more for entry level positions. If you are in a specialized career recruiters take way more time on applications.
This is more generalized resume advice. With that said specialized positions are few and far between for many people and a specially tailored resume is more likely to lose you job opportunities for most positions.
Again you’re right it does really depend but you have to use your best judgment on what kind of job you’re applying for.
I wouldn’t say situation dependent but this is more for entry level positions. If you are in a specialized career recruiters take way more time on applications.
This is more generalized resume advice. With that said specialized positions are few and far between for many people and a specially tailored resume is more likely to lose you job opportunities for most positions.
Again you’re right it does really depend but you have to use your best judgment on what kind of job you’re applying for.
This is 100% true. But you should also include a cover letter, just as a second document. I mean obviously not if you’re applying for McDonald’s but you get the idea
Yo Burger Boss,
I really need a job like ASAP because my mom says I gotta move out of her basement and stop playing video games all day LOL. I’ve eaten at McDonald’s like a million times (mostly at 3 AM) so I basically already know everything about working there - I mean, how hard can flipping burgers be??? My friend Dave said you guys get free food which is literally the main reason I’m applying, plus I saw on TikTok that sometimes employees mess up orders on purpose and get to keep the food (so cool). I’m pretty bad at waking up early and I definitely can’t work weekends because that’s when my Fortnite team practices, but I promise I’ll try to show up most of the time when I’m scheduled.
Peace out,
ZuthanP.S. Can you make sure to put me on drive-thru so I can practice my funny voices?
I felt the same way until a friend of mine helped me redo my cover letter before COVID. Gotten 2 jobs since then and have tripped my salary in a handful of years. The latest gig (that was a salary doubling jump) was through a recruiter who said the cover letter helped me get the interview.
Could you give an example on what your cover letter looks like or maybe some tips?
Sure, this is close to what I use (I’ve tried to change it up a bit so I don’t give up too much info), and I’ve included prompts for what to fill in. I’ll admit it is very generic at this level, but you should be able to take these bones and make your own monster out of it 😁
Just remember to sell yourself to them, even if it feels icky and gross, that’s what job applications are. If you do exaggerate in your cover letter/resume, keep it reasonable and be prepared to support it if/when you get interviewed!
Name
Address
Phone #To whom it may concern,
I discovered your <job title> position <on website, from person etc>, and I would like to know more about this position. I am a <description of yourself as a professional, include something about wanting a challenge>. I think that I would be a good fit for this position because <list qualities related to the field applying for, don’t be afraid to exaggerate (within reason) - sell yourself!>.
I have <number> years of experience in <your field> and <any professional certifications or relevant education or experience>. I am <list characteristics RELEVANT TO POSITION! Reference interpersonal skills! Sell yourself to the company!>.
<Comments about your excitement for the position>. <Thank them for considering you for the position>, <statement about wanting to learn more/meeting them to discuss>. I can be reached at the listed phone number or via email at <your professional email>.
Regards,
<Your name>
Because I’m bored and feeling silly while kiillng time:
Jason Vorhees
1313 Crystal Lake Rd
206-555-0123To whom it may concern,
I discovered your Summer Camp Slasher position on StabbedIn, and I would like to know more about this position. I am a relentless killer who is up for a new challenge in murdering teens at camp. I think that I would be a good fit for this position because I have the ability to teleport, survive being shot/stabbed/set on fire, and am a dedicated problem solver.
I have 40 years of experience in menacing camp counsellors and have multiple endorsements from various local police departments. I am a dedicated killer who will keep coming back until the job is done or I am relieved of the position.
I believe this position will be a good fit for me, and I believe I will bring a lot of dread to the camp. Thank you for your consideration for this position, I look forward to meeting to discuss this opportunity and demonstrate my skills. I can be reached at the listed phone number or via email at jvorhees@crystallake.com.
Regards,
Jason Vorhees
My cover letter is just a picture of Rick Astley
Never Gonna Get You Hired
Never Gonna Get You Fired
lol
But he’s going to run around and support you! 😅
Mine is 2 pages, and I think everyone I’ve hired has been 2 pages. Maybe it’s kinda dependent on the field you’re in? Idk, i can’t imagine cramming all my proficiencies, jobs, and responsibilities on one page.
Can we do bullet bullet points for extra creativity?
Spray and pray baby. Getting the recruiter or HR department to like you only gets you in the door. You can’t shortcut actual connections with your actual coworkers.
Right. When I was interviewing people, I honestly couldn’t care less about the CV. I’m an engineer, words are hard. I want a list of your skills, your software proficiencies, and a run-down of your previous jobs along with your responsibilities. When you get here, I’m going to care about finding out how much you know about designing and cad. Then we’ll take a tour of the shop to see if the machinery we build is in your comfort zone. We’ll have some small talk to get a feel for if you’d fit in with the group, and off you’ll go. All said and done, it should be under 45 minutes.
I still don’t know what a cover letter even is. never used one and don’t plan on starting. no one’s reading that crap anyway
It’s the thing that gets fed into an LLM to opaquely grade you before your resume gets looked at by a human
That’s why you use an LLM to generate it
The resume shows experience and the cover letter shows personality. If the job has any kind of soft skills a cover letter is a bonus, if the job is super technical it’s probably not necessary. It also depends on the workplace.
If it is a job you actually want though I would recommend writing something. I’m on a smaller team and read all the resumes of applicants. I actually read them because I’m going to be the one contacting, interviewing, and working with them. I absolutely read the cover letters and give a small bonus to people who include them.
Is the bottom one not what we’ve all been doing for the past 10 years? If you haven’t worked more than 5 or so places it should also look like that right?
Also fuck cover letters. Never making one, I don’t care who they send
Generating BS cover letters is one of the few good uses I’ve found for chat gpt
That might get you in the door but a poor resume built by AI with key phrases to fool the algorithm will be an insta delete by a human.
Who said anything about resumes built with AI? Certainly not me.
Just do what I do and have an AI generate the cover letter. Saves me a ton of time, and gives me a personalized letter for every job while only writing two sentences.
(But then again Lemmy absolutely hates AI with a blind passion—just as much as you hate cars—so I don’t know why I’m actually suggesting this. It works, though.)
I do it like that, but it has backfired before. I posted a resume that mentions I can code to a teaching position (Highschool maths). Not relevant to the job at all. Got the job. Some random admin person remembered I can write code and that meant that every other teacher should address their IT questions to me. No extra pay and I had to explain Microsoft software a lot of the time, which I don’t even use.
Seems nobody sent the memo to all those career advisers, coaches, job seeking assistance places etc. because I still see it as “recommended practice” LMAO
I think cover letters are still absolutely relevant to the job process.
I liken cover letters to cheat sheets that you prepare for an exam. You may not need to make one to be successful, but can be very helpful.
Usually with cover letters, I try to make the argument that I’m good for the company, and the company is good for me. This usually allows me to frame the way I look a new job as a business agreement where both parties can benefit, and that I’m not a parasite taking from them and not giving.
I don’t make cover letters for each and every position I apply to or look into, but for those ones i think I have a good chance of landing and those companies I believe in, I’ll absolutely put in more effort with cover letters.
I couldn’t count the number of people I’ve interviewed, but I can tell you that I’ve read exactly zero cover letters.
Again, part of my argument in favor of cover letters is that they help the candidate better prepare for the (sometimes multiple) interview process. They can help a candidate distill the main reasons as to why they want the job, which can make conversation easier if you’re more comfortable speaking to those more personal things.
Nobody in my industry bothers to read them. You’d be lucky if they spend more than a minute on the resume so they’re a waste of time.
Some organizations in my industry require them, so guess it depends.
Regardless of if it’s required, however, I would still argue that it’s good even if you don’t have to send it to the company. To me, it helps me put my head in the right mindspace to argue for myself and make a case that I’m the person for them.
Is your industry the 1950s?
My industry is STEM?
I think cover letters are still absolutely relevant to the job process.
Nope.
Great dialogue!
You’re welcome.
