Ignore all the joke answers here. It seems insensitive given the subject matter. He’s probably lonely and feeling left out. If he has siblings it’s all the more likely. I was an alienated teenager who was in a place similar to your son I think. I eventually realized I and many others we’re being used to further the agenda of some unsavory fucks who wanted to send us back to the 1860’s. Try to show him how much he means to you. Let him know you care about him. Just don’t drive him away, Show some love and compassion and he’ll realize he’s drinking the kool-aid eventually I think. Hope this helps, good luck!
Also, should work with him emphasizing that politics isn’t really about having a party but before that, having an ethos. At the end of the day you need to evaluate how your ethos aligns with the parties actions, not ideas. I can’t believe anyone today is conservative as I had once known them because I know the GOPs actions align only with obtaining power. Unless your ethos is “fuck you i got mine” the GOP offers you nothing. Which also means that you’ve already got yours. Which, looking at conservatives, I have my doubts. And if they don’t have theirs, well then it’s just, “fuck you.” Which I can understand why a teenager would feel that way.
Barry Goldwater wouldn’t recognize what his party has become. He tried to warn them. He pretty much predicted the rise of Christian nationalism.
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.” - Barry Goldwater
I know almost zero about berry goldwater but know with a stark certainly you will never catch a current conservative saying anything like that. To think, goldwater was probably as prominent a figure as john mccain.
He was the Republican presidential candidate in 1964. He ran against Lyndon B. Johnson. He was a very well respected man in the party. I’m not going to pretend he’s the greatest politician of all time. I definitely have ideological differences but I respect him for what he fought for.
A plane ticket. Others have suggested he’s bored and I concur. IMO, he needs to be intellectually challenged while simultaneously having his fears assuaged. Fear, I believe, is a key driver in pushing people toward fascist ideologies. Most likely he fears not being loved.
Traveling to countries with very different cultures can be both stimulating and reassuring, especially if it involves some significant challenge - a physical one like climbing a significant peak or somewhere that’s just super hard to get to. You can demonstrate that you love and care for him by going with him. Just the two of you.
I concur. I noticed a lot of right wing people in the US never travel at all. They are only seeing and hearing information off of the Internet, colored by specific algorithms. If all you see of the world beyond your borders is through Fox news, you will have a skewed view.
Have him travel to another 1st world country, Europe, Japan or Canada, to see how people actually live there and there is nothing to fear.
Ideally, if you can afford it you can join him. I can wholeheartedly recommend a city like Antwerp, Copenhagen or Berlin for some history and also a relaxed atmosphere. If he’s more into nature the Norse fjords, the Greek coast, Ibiza (combines nature with partying) or the Swiss Alps are all amazing.
Fear is a key driver (period). I just heard this on the radio. They analyzed what pulls people in and it’s fear. Fear also keeps people lingering longer. I didn’t hear enough to explain it (I got to my destination before the show was over). Putting it together with other things I’ve heard, the algorithms that are tuned to keep people engaged on the site skill natually choose things that stoke fear and that is probably the same thing that the facist propaganda is promoting, too.
Specifically try to get him into some hobby or social activity that will draw his attention away from the fasc stuff. Was there anything he used to love, any friends he’s drifted away from that you could try and get him talking to again through a shared activity?
Source: am psych nurse. You don’t confront / directly argue with delusions and other thoughts related to maladaptive social behavior; you subtly reduce their attractiveness while encouraging healthy human connection.
Additionally, I would suggest activities that doesn’t isolate him further or put him in a group of like minded people. Cooking classes would be nice.
Something that interests him other than fascism. Idk why that has anything to do with a gift. A gift is there to show appreciation and love, not to manipulate their pov.
Yeh, this is a weird question. Kid has to know he’s going to be accepted by his own Dad and still be able to make up their own mind on things. Hopefully when they’ve more fully developed they might sway a different way but acceptance from their Dad shouldn’t really be conditional upon it.
Bootstraps
If he’s consuming right wing social media, it might be because he’s bored. Others have suggested left wing media, but maybe just finding other activities to do would help. These cost money, but maybe camping/hiking, hobby electronics/combat robots, dirt bikes/go-karts, RC planes/drones or metal fabrication are ideas that come to my mind. These are hobbies that have either politics neutral or left leaning communities. If he picks up that you’re trying to politically influence him, he’ll likely dig his heal in.
This is great advice, and combine it with talking to him. My son was into Tate, and then Rogan, and a few others throughout his years. He would tell me about something they said and I would tear it down with logic and empathy, and then explain the right mindset from which to view whatever the given subject was. Indoctrination requires isolation, so keep an open dialogue, and an open mind, and talk them down from the ledge.
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So, what makes you think he’s been taken in by fascist doctrine? Are we talking, “he thinks Dave Chapelle is funny and rolls his eyes at wokeness” or are we talking “defends hitler at the dinner table”? I ask just because I feel like some very liberal/leftist people can be pretty jumpy about things that are ultimately harmless. Additionally he might just be doing/saying things to act out and get a rise out of you. You’re not gonna fix that by making him read “white fragility” or something.
As far as gifts go I agree with many others in suggesting something that will make him interact with other worldviews in the real world. Maybe you can get him into a hobby that is shared by people across many different socioeconomic backgrounds like basketball or martial arts or travel or something.
Some kids adopt an edgy political identity as a form of protest or rebellion. I can see this being the case here, especially if your whole family is particularly left-leaning. Kid wants to feel like he has an autonomy over his own decision making and that he’s not just a carbon copy of you or his siblings, so he becomes a contrarian.
As a teen I was also taken in by extremist political ideology on 4chan, but the thing that snapped me out of that is, surprisingly enough, my curriculum at school focusing heavily on critical thinking and problem solving as essential skills. That’s unfortunately not something that can easily be condensed down into a gift-sized package. I’m sure there are some books out there that can help, but I worry that it might be too on-the-nose or that he might just not like reading much to be interested in dry subject matter like philosophy or political science.
I kind of agree with other posters here that taking a family trip somewhere, maybe not explicitly as a gift for him, but as an experience for all of your children, will expose him to stimuli that drastically differ from the way he currently sees the world, which is influenced by a nonstop stream of fearmongering propaganda and a lack of perspective of what a world outside the town or city he grew up in actually looks like.
When i was in ny early 20s, i was a Ron Paul guy. When I was in my early 30s, I was a Bernie guy.
So what changed, and what was the same? In my 20s, I didnt have a fundamental understanding of how money really works. Ron Paul was big on the gold standard, which makes sense kn the surface. Crypto is similar where it makes sense on the surface; finite supply means no inflation and no value loss. I somehow also reasoned that not having the gold standard was the cause of inequality, but I honeslty cant understand why, and i cant remember either.
In my 30s, I understood how they money system works mich better. Why we left the gold standard, and how it was holding back progress. I understood how our money is actually backed by muscle, and therefore the national debt doesnt really matter all that much until the day comes when the dollar has no value, because the US is defunct.
Im sure I have much more to learn as I am in my early 40s now.
The point I am trying to make, is that your son probably lacks understanding and wisdom, and is currently easily swayed by surface level logic.
Thisbis really in addition to the other great stuff people have said in here
Do you know if the doctrine he’s been taken in by is religious or secular in nature?
I ask because I could recommend some books you could get him that just might get the kid to think a little harder about things.
For context, I teach philosophy and religion for some community colleges and have been looking for ways to get these Gen Z alt right boys to quit the propaganda.
While a lot of them seem to be lost causes, there are some who can be challenged to read outside their sphere, so long as what I give them isn’t too overtly “other.”
Depending on what he’s into, there might be some authors who know how to talk to an oppositional reader.
I don’t know how to put this delicately, but:
1.) I grew up in this line of thinking (but also deeply religious, so it’s a little different) and it dissipated due to two main things: psychedelics and losing weight/becoming more confident and in-shape. In my case, I hated myself because I was unattractive and very overweight. I saw other people getting girls and resented how easy it seemed, while I felt invisible.
2.) Much of my family is like this and it is always due to a similar lack of confidence/self-loathing.
I’m not suggesting anything, just throwing it out there. That’s a hard thing to “gift” around, if it’s even at all potentially relevant. Gym membership or weights? You’d have to have a pretty unique relationship with your son to give him psychedelics or a trip to a nice strip club, and I’m not even sure that solves anything necessarily (just using it as an extreme example). Could be badass. Could be really weird/icky. Probably the latter. Massage is less weird? I don’t know.
Which is why I agree with the sentiment of separating it all from Christmas and just love him and give him something that shows you know him and know what he would like, so that he feels seen and appreciated. “I’m not going anywhere” is the most-powerful message you can try to send. I’d say IF you try to gift something like that, make sure it’s only a side item. Don’t make the entire thing about your differences.
Many cliches of parenting turn out to be realities as you go. You find yourself realizing tropes exist for a reason. They grow up fast. Different phases at different periods. Moody teenagers. They’re not always true, but they often turn out to be understandable. Besides the above, it’s worth considering whether there might be some element of “rebellion” in it, if he grew up liberal. Maybe it’s just “doing the opposite of my lame family,” like a little bit of a “fuck you, dad!!!” phase? No matter what, you lose the more you dramatically respond. I think riding it out by being the rock who loves him no matter what is ultimately the best play, which means some awesome gift that he would love.
1.) I grew up in this line of thinking (but also deeply religious, so it’s a little different) and it dissipated due to two main things: psychedelics and losing weight/becoming more confident and in-shape. In my case, I hated myself because I was unattractive and very overweight. I saw other people getting girls and resented how easy it seemed, while I felt invisible.
My GenZ son is in his early twenties and lockdown and covid impacts on his health and school have really thrown him for a loop. He has not been overcome by fascist ideologies, but we seem unable to inspire him with any motivation. He’s the same sweet person he’s always been, but I think he is content to just play video games in his room and do D&D with his friends a couple times a week forever. (I understand that, but we won’t always be here to put a roof over his head, and we are not wealthy people. He’s going to need to support himself when we go.)
He is also very overweight (the entire family is, but he’s really accelerating it) and although he doesn’t seem very very bothered by it, I know he’s aware of it.
I understand the need for exercise and I understand calories. Those things don’t need explaining. But I’d love to know how you got over that hurdle to start doing something about your body. I feel like some successes there could easily translate to greater confidence and motivation in other areas.
We spend lots of time together, we enjoy him just like we always have, he just seems rudderless and we’re trying to help him without controlling him, but with limited success.
Anything you might be able to share about your turnaround could be helpful. Though I’m not offering him psychadelics. 🙂
Unfortunately, that really is the answer for me. Psychedelics made it all finally click in a way that stuck. I had previously seen marginal success in dieting, but could never keep it off. Because I was coming from a religious background, part of it was, “What’s the point?” Sex is wrong. I married young. Life sucks. And so on. Psychedelics made all of the percolating doubts and insecurities click into place in a clear way. “I’m NOT really religious; I don’t believe it. I’m not raising my kids that way. No third-party is going to step-in and change my body for me. Nobody is going to put the weights in my hand and check my progress. I have to take care of me. I either have to take action or shut up and live with the consequences. I’d really prefer to live a life where I’m more desirable and it’s not really anyone else’s fault if I’m not putting in enough effort and ‘losing the mating game.’” And so on–can’t really characterize a trip like that with words obviously.
I might have/probably would have eventually gotten there without psychedelics? I think? Maybe? I don’t know. But they certainly provided the swift kick in the ass I needed to clarify years of baggage. I know it’s not helpful to say “give your child psychedelics,” but it just happens to be what helped me (specifically, one instance of using shrooms was the most-impactful, I mostly only ever microdosed a few times besides that one trip).
I have a long-time close friend who has long struggled with weight in a serious way. He briefly lost it and suddenly he was dating a beautiful Ukrainian girl, seeing the benefits of being healthy, loving life. That was a long time ago, it ended, he gained it all back. The closest I’ve come to getting through to him is to be a bit more crass than I normally would be in saying, “REMEMBER HOW GOOD IT WAS TO BE WITH THAT GIRL!? DON’T YOU MISS THAT AND WANT IT BACK? ISN’T THAT WORTH A FEW MONTHS OF WORK?” But being a bit more pointed in my language. But again, you’re probably not going to say, “Don’t you miss that good pussy!?” to your son, so…I’m kind of useless to you, maybe.
I can see how that makes sense. I’m not anti-psychedelics in general (if presented with a binary choice of being anti or not), but I’m also not of the experience level nor comfort level to be offering them to my son. If they would become something available to him clinically I’d support it if recommended by his doctor of course. (not that he needs our permission at his age)
Nonetheless I appreciate that you took the time to make that detailed write up. Thanks!
A cooy of disco elysium
let your children come to their conclusions on their own. do not try to force them into believing one thing or another. share what you believe is right and let them critically think and analyze the world for themselves
it’s perfectly natural for teenagers to rebel against their parent’s world view- especially when they feel like they are being forced into it. it’s part of growing up and crafting your own unique identity. nobody has it all figured out when they are a teenager, even though they think they do. so they may seem arrogant and ignorant… but that’s perfectly normal. if you successfully imparted them the values of empathy and compassion when they were young, they will eventually come to proper belief systems
as for present, you know your son a lot better than any of us will.
Have your son travel, sending him off to see how other people live and how cheerful and helpful most people are is probably going to open his eyes.
- Puerto Rico, Bahama’s, St Lucia, British Virgin Islands are all fairly safe and you can mix and mingle with the locals. Just don’t stay somewhere where you will only stay on the resort. Get a hotel or resort in the middle of a community
I had a wonderful time in St Luca several years ago and stayed at the resort below. It’s a small resort in the middle of a town with lots of interaction with locals.
I would send him to Europe over the Caribbean. Its too easy to stay on the resort and learn nothing in the Carribean.
Literally the link I posted was a small resort in the middle of a community…
