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I am not convinced any significant number of people voted for Trump because they supported Palestine. Feels like a massive straw man meant to stoke divisions in the left.
No, they didn’t, but I think a lot of people didn’t vote for Harris who otherwise would have
Quite possibly but I think that has as much if not more to do with Harris massively failing to be the exciting not completely pro-establishment candidate we needed.
“I’m sorry. It was between literally the man who will destroy the country and told us as much and someone just not exciting enough. Gotta do better, Dems.”
This isn’t helpful, I never said they were smart or correct, I said I understand how we ended up here and I sympathize with people who are suffering and angry and very ignorant and susceptible to propaganda. The DNC didn’t fail at being objectively better, they failed at making people feel heard and convinced that there would be hope of real systemic change and not just roughly what we have had for the past 20-30 years.
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Why would the democrats not do everything in their power to defeat the republicans? This includes giving equal access to the electoral system to 3rd parties. This is a existential threat, act like it! Bring in everybody, let’s fucking all work on this together!
Democrats preferred the country to be destroyed over having to compete for your vote. Party over country at the highest level possible.
I mean out of the candidates she was less evil, but vote for the evil? She didn’t even promise to solve any of the long standing problems voters face and vouched to support new trending problems.
I’m not an American, but when the whole point of one(of two for some reason, and that won’t change for some reason) political party is that they will fuck you in the next 4 years, and the whole point of the other(again for some reason there aren’t any good people going into the government for years) is to fuck you harder but they also will fuck other chilling people who may understand now the real problems or(probably in the dreams) actually break the system(via either revolt or civil push against the first party), why would you vote for the first?
They didn’t vote for Trump - they misunderstood the system that was in place.
Republican citizen groups have been going over the rolls in key states and removing by challenge registered Democrats who had any small errors on their registration sowing confusion and making otherwise eligible people ineligible.
Republican resources were used to amplify third party candidates who never had a hope of success due to the nature of construction of the system to create spoiler effects. If you thought Jill Stein was a real electable option you can look back at prior elections.
The concept of moral abstention from this election removed people who otherwise would have voted Democrat as the lesser of two possible evils from the system.
Basically since First past the post is a winner take all system Even if 70 percent of the public hates the Republican platform all they have to do is win a majority voting share, that doesn’t mean they have to win your vote. They just have to mean that they have to remove your vote from supporting their main competition. They can do that via sowing apathy or divison or by changing the structure of the voting process through gerrymandering and other tactics that any dedicated volunteer can do if they are willing to slog under the assumption that what they are doing is ethically sound “payback”. The fact is that these voting systems do not support the will of a majority and both established parties have benefited from that historically… But Republicans stopped playing by the rules awhile ago and they are marketing masters.
Since Republicans have basically outlined their goals to destroy the checks and balances of the system of government basically all they needed was to keep up the ruse that the system somehow rewards people who act outside of the two party choice the system was designed to deliver. Democrats, hoping to play the long game couldn’t out the system they have benefitted from as being a rigged game if they wanted it to continue … So anything but a vote for a Democratic candidate was basically automatically an increase in share to the Republicans by virtue of subtraction hence why a lot of us are unhappy…particularly those of us who tried to explain this shit beforehand and were told we were scum for supporting genocidal regimes. I don’t like Democrats but they at least support the Laissez-faire systems that allow leftists to utilize their power as private citizens to support foreign intervention. I don’t give a snowball’s chance in hell that the support people have managed to give Palestinian interests thusfar will be able to continue at all under the Republicans.
3rd party didn’t amount to shit. It’s the lack of a campaign that has any messages other than “vote us or you’ll get Hitler” and “we’re Republican Lite, the reasonable racist”. It’s the chasing of a handful of Republican voters which didn’t amount to shit instead of coming up with popular progressive points that are simple and effective.
50k for a home loan if you’ve been a good boy is weak. Pro military shit is exhausting. Doing nothing on Gaza was unpopular, but hey AIPAC loves it. Saying you won’t do anything different from Biden was sweet and touching for Old Joe, but a horrible idea to win an election where he’s been unpopular.
Honestly… You were voting for a Hitler that would destroy protections and target vulnerable people on your home soil as scapegoats or a group who can be counted on at least to uphold the freedoms you and vulnerable groups have as a citizen on paper. Those were the only two choices you had. You can rail about how sub par your choice was but in the end you had two… and you didn’t fear the one you needed to enough in my opinion.
You can continue to beat your fists about how shit the Democrats were but if you wanted more options then that was not your moment to demand them. As one who is LGBTQIA+ in Canada with a lot of American friends I know so many people who are now scared for their lives and livelyhoods who are abandoning marriage plans in favour of courthouse weddings and are scrambling to try and get visas. I know the realities of them finding long term safety here is a shit shoot and I am trying to do what I can. I am seeing the cost of people I know upending their lives because they no longer feel safe. I was here for months beforehand listening to so many people looking at this two choice system and treating the election like a game of chicken. I am so personally angry because so many of you might as well have said “Well that’s a rainbow colored sacrifice I’m willing to make.”
I might not be the one to try and justify how Democrats were not good enough for you because that wasn’t the question you were being asked.
First of all, the thing I was responding to was your comment on 3rd party voters who (last I checked) had less votes than were needed to bring the Dems over the finish line. Jill Stein is a grifter who is probably on Russian payroll, but she is not the problem.
Second, I can make the same argument as you: the party risked it all to run on a corpo interest campaign even though people were fed up on it, just so they hadn’t have to anger those interests by running a more successful one. Now queer people are in danger because of it. What you’re saying is that instead of a party running a campaign that hinges on misinformed people voting for them, on a platform that doesn’t do anything for them, these misinformed voters are at fault. It’s just not.
This goes into the third point, you say those were the only two choices Americans had. These choices aren’t static. We all had the same conversation when it came to Joe Biden being the nominee, people also were saying Dems had to change their candidate. But people like you were saying no, these are our choices, deal with it. But after the debate all of a sudden change was so easy and natural. Your argument is bullshit. Harris nominated Walz as VP and was lining up a more progressive stance. But after some neolib pollster told her that doesn’t win her stuff, guess what? She changed her campaign back. By the way the Dems should litigate for damages on these pollsters and open up homeless shelters in their offices.
The people are racist and misogynist. Everybody knows that. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, can’t afford housing and groceries and would rather vote a fascist who promises to change things. The Democratic party set up a campaign that hinges on these peoples virtue and promised things staying the same as before instead of change. That is the problem.
If you are concerned with 3rd party voters, then you should be working on replacing First-past-the-post voting where you live. People should have their vote counted even if their preference didn’t win. Everyone should be represented by their choices in the voting booth. People shouldn’t have to strategicly vote.
You clearly understand the flaws of the voting system, time to put it to good use.
I hope you swing by my ask lemmy post to discuss your recent commitment to passing electoral reform in your state.
I mean, I am Canadian and have been writing my MPs for literally years now and doing what rabble rousing I can but it really is a ridiculously hard system to crack. It was everybody’s election promise 10 years ago back when Trudeau was first elected and I am a part of a group of people whose rage has been simmering like the surface of the sun for decades.
Getting people to actually UNDERSTAND first past the post as a systemic weakness it is and to buy into electoral reform is grassroots hell. One thing you have going for you is that essentially the entire system is breaking down and is cause for immediate genuine alarm which if you do this right should light a fire under your asses to actually march and DEMAND change.
I agree. I also think the problem was never they wouldn’t vote for Harris. The problem was Harris needed turn out and if all the messaging around her is constantly negative people will not turn out.
I have the feeling that since the vote is over, a lot fewer people are here to defend their “ron’t vote for harris because palestine” stance. Like something was switched off…
Wasn’t it something like 11% of Democratic primary voters that checked the box for “uncommitted” to signify that they weren’t willing to vote for genocide? (Might have been 11% in one state, I’m not sure, but the ‘uncommiteds’ were a big enough number for MSM reporting.)
Seems to me like Dems had plenty of time and motivation to change their political stance on the issue.
I’m still here. Harris fucked up on Palestine. Biden fucked up on Palestine. It just doesn’t need to be repeated on and on and on again - there is no new information, only people who think “vote for a candidate that supports genocide” is the correct thing to do. And that “Trump worse” is somehow a gotcha, when there isn’t any difference - the genocide has been happening and has been killing Palestinians for a year when democrats were in charge.
What short memories people have. It’s been decades. Since Clinton and before. It spiked in the last year. And will spike even harder now that so many actively voted for fascism like in 1980. Or railed against the achievable (you) in pursuit of unobtainable perfection. Only to predictably, as it always has been. Achieve the worst possible outcome. But denying self responsibility. That part is always present too. Otherwise people would have to learn.
Yes, I know it’s been decades. We are talking about this election and what’s been happening “right now”. And why democrats lost it now.
The difference is very simple. A lot of people don’t give a shit about Palestine, but act as if they do. They clutch their pearls when you point it out. They say things like you do, where “stop the genocide” is somehow “unobtainable perfection”. Like oopsie, guess we will never change it, it’s completely impossible to not be funding genocide!
Fuck that and fuck everyone who thinks that. You aren’t the good guys for voting Harris, and for voting for the genocide. You aren’t the good guys for voting for Trump and for voting for the genocide.
Aaaah yes. More childishness. Everyone who isn’t you etc doesn’t care. Yes. You’ll get a lot accomplished with that BS. Like playing a part in getting a fascist elected. Muddying the waters and demotivating others with hyperbolic and false statements of “ThEy’Re ThE sAmE!” or “GeNoCiDe JoE/hArRiS!”. But you’re a special boy/girl. You’re riteous and correct. Everything is simple black and white. You and you alone see the simple black and white solutions no one else can. We were all pretending to care when we told you that BS would be counterproductive and even backfire and that we needed solidarity till after the election.
But hey, trump is all worth it for you to keep your imagined purity and sense of superiority. Good job!
If everything isn’t black and white, why isn’t Biden / Harris stopping the genocide right now? To punish these bad voters that didn’t vote for them?
Again, you try to be sarcastic, you try to be funny, and yet again you prove - you don’t give two shits about Palestine. You say “solidarity was needed” when your policies were the ones that were being supported, and mine weren’t. It is easy to say that when you get what you want you know.
There are still a couple running around, mostly with day old accounts. They claim they’re being banned for holding that stance but from what I’ve seen they’re getting banned for being inflammatory dickholes.
I’m getting the same shit I did after the Biden win in 2020. With all the astroturfers gone Dems are allowed to control the narrative again and they are full force defending the DNC. This is how it will be for the next 4 years. Until the astroturf accounts have their next assignment.
we are simultaneously a small amd pathetic minority, but also able to swing a major election on a major country. just pick one already.
I mean, honestly, I don’t think people protesting Democrats because of the genocide were what caused Dems to lose. I honestly believe it was because the Dems refused to acknowledge that times are hard for non-billionaires. That being said, anyone who voted for trump thinking he’d be better is an absolute fool.
i don’t think leftists voted for trump though.
Dems refused to acknowledge that times are hard for non-billionaires.
Agreed. It’s why the number of people who just didn’t vote dwarfs the number of people who switched parties.
It may have been a factor in Michigan. Their are about 300 Arab and Muslim Americans in Michigan, an estimated 200K of which are registered to vote, and Uncommitted vote had about 100K votes in the primary, which is less than Trump’s margin of victory. There’s going to be a lot of nuance examining how the anti-Genocide voters might have affected the electoral map, and I’m not sure we’ll ever get a straight answer.
It doesn’t matter to people who share these memes, though. They don’t like looking at the numbers. In their head, they have an image of a young, entitled white kid with a Genocide Joe sign who just wouldn’t listen to reason. An analysis would probably show that person is more likely to be Arab or Muslim with close ties to the Palestinian community, and that knowledge would make them uncomfortable.
it’s almost like every vote matters.
I’m just gonna keep hammering this in for a while. 81 million Democrats voted in 2020, but only 71 million this year. Trump won by 3.5 million. But hey, at least all you righteous little angels aren’t “complicit in genocide”, right? Think about that while you polish your halos. YOU did this.
The Dems could have forced a ceasefire. The Muslim contingent warned them months ago and polling very clear showed that a ceasefire would have likely changed the result in several critical swing states.
Oh bullshit. The only way to get a ceasefire is for the Israeli people to force out Netanyahu. Nothing short of that or invading would make a difference.
eh. kinda missing the point. they didn’t even try and the polling was clear-- this policy would lose the Dems the election.
Also, South African dock workers have managed to organize and block the transfer of Israeli military goods through their ports. You telling me that South African port workers are more capable of following international law than the Us government? well, fuck it, how do I vote for them then?
Israel has its own weapons industry. Not that it matters. The Palestinians are defenseless. They could use machetes and nothing would stop them except what I already pointed out.
Yes, but they don’t have their own satellite constellation or nanometer chip forges and many of of their fancy weapons systems would be rendered useless by an Alibaba gps jammer.
Granted, this wouldn’t do a whole lot for the IMU guided systems, but the US has literally been shooting down missiles in transit for a year when they fly towards Israel. you telling me that shit only works in one direction?
Right. Team America: world police rite?
Get a good grip, child.
“Why are we responsible for the bombs we keep sending to Israel?”
They can’t bomb Gaza without american bombs or defend Tell Aviv without American GPS or or or or.
You said:
The Dems could have forced a ceasefire.
I disagree, you are not world police.
Now you say:
They can’t bomb Gaza without american bombs
To which I say: yes, but those two things are not the same, and your understanding of both geopolitics and Israel’s current armament is not as definitive as your confidence in their inability to commit atrocities without anyone’s assistance.
Don’t be so reductive. The US is very important in the “mass slaughter” math here, no one’s trying to out-kill you, you can relax, but you’re not the whole picture.
No. I’m saying the US had the technological capability to stop missiles from flying at all, the financial power to make life difficult for the Bibi regime, the political power to back the ICJ, and is in no way compelled to reprint IDF propaganda to sway the American electorate towards their pro-settler policies, but they failed on all counts. The US made Iranian nuclear refineries shake themselves apart, but US tech companies now build AI tools to aid the IDF in their campaign of total destruction.
Maybe the ceasefire wouldn’t have been total, but the polls clearly showed that the lack of effort would (and did) cost them the election.
But hey, at least all you righteous little angels aren’t “complicit in genocide”, right? Think about that while you polish your halos. YOU did this.
How are you sure that all the missing votes are caused by Pro-Palestinian purity non-voters?
Nowhere near all of them have to be. Trump only won by 3.5 million. It’s very difficult to believe that anywhere near a majority of the 10 million Dems who decided not to show up would have voted for him.
I’m just gonna keep hammering this in for a while
…Which only reinforces the story that centrists stand for nothing and cant be trusted to lead a party-- especially a “big tent” coalition.
How does 10 million people not showing up to vote reinforce the story that centrists stand for nothing? I wouldn’t call people centrist for not showing up on the excuse of “not being complicit in genocide”. I would call them single-issue fools.
This was the second highest turnout in a hundred years. In the seven swing states turnout either met or exceeded 2020. This is not an interesting point.
It was a 12% drop in voting in probably the most crucial election in modern times. Sorry if it’s not an interesting enough meme.
It’s meaningless in a system that uses an electoral college.
Popular vote isn’t meaningless, just distorted. There’s a limit to how much you can lose by and still manage to get enough electoral votes.
What’s the limit?
Good question. It would be difficult to calculate. I would start by examining electoral districts to find the ones where voters from the popular majority party in a state have been concentrated by gerrymandered so they will heavily win those districts but lose in most others, enabling the minority party to win that state. Then determine how many votes the gerrymandered party would need to overcome this by winning some of those other districts. Then do this for the whole country and add up the total.
What does gerrymandering have to do with winning a state’s electoral college delegates outside of Maine and Nebraska? States award all their delegates to the winner of the states popular vote.
I love how you said “complicit in genocide” unironically.
Really shows low standards have fallen for Democrats.
Denotes sarcasm. Trump et al. Will increase the genocide instead of having a shot at stopping it. They are still complicit in genocide, more so, arguably
Absolutely more so, not voting against Trump was morally reprehensible because of what he will do to Gaza as well as people here
The only thing arguable here is whether or not Democrats still possess any degree of objectivity.
They had hard data that continuing to enthusiastically support and fund genocide would cost them at the polls. Then, approximately ten million people decide not to vote. It’s asinine to take the stance that the voters are at fault here. This argument is like punching someone in the face and then blaming the victim for the fact that you injured your hand.
Yes, I too remeber when Kamala said nothing about ceasefires https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.html
Or how trump and his friends were all about saving palestine
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905
Yes, certainly blaming the person for bring punched in the face here, uhuh.
If someone is bombing your friends, family, and neighbors… do you care what they say or what they do?
Be reasonable.
You realize she isn’t potus and can’t stop these things? Be reasonable. Palestine will now be relegated to the history books.
She is an extension of the POTUS and the policies of this admin, and it doesn’t matter what she said as long as Biden was sending WMD’s to Israel mid-genocide.
You aren’t making sense.
Democrats had 4 years to pass electoral reform and call in reinforcements to fight the republicans. They could have done away with FPTP voting in the states they controlled but instead sat on their hands. They didn’t do everything in their power to stop the Republicans. Democrats can no longer be trusted to go it alone.
“My purity is a precious delicate flower, I’m not going to soil it by voting for Democrats. Palestinians can take comfort in that!”
“Why can’t my politicians mesmerize me every day? I don’t want no competent government nerds in Washington, I need to be mesmerized every day to muster up the precious energy to go and vote!”
I will never, EVER overestimate or respect the younger generations, who can vote and won’t. They have now shown themselves to be as ignorant stupid and heartless and fickle and impatient and lazy as medieval peasants.
They are just as fucked up as their baby boomer parents or grandparents who gave Reagan and his cadre of assholes the keys to the kingdom.
You just can’t fathom that this is the Democrats fault, eh? It was their Republican Lite campaign, so it’s their fault. Not young people, not Latinos, not muslims. Leftists couldn’t say shit about how this wouldn’t workall year, because that would only help Trump. Now they’re at fault. Maybe you can think about a course change for once instead of blaming anybody but the party elites that are only invested in donor interests.
I will never, EVER overestimate or respect the younger generations, who can vote and won’t.
Did you even notice that Harris lost amongst every single demographic except college educated whites? She got slaughtered amongst the native American vote even more than the youth vote. So how about you be consistent and talk down to the native American voters. Go ahead.
None of them voted for Trump. You can look at the voting numbers. Trump’s numbers are pretty much in line with what he got in 2020. He didn’t gain votes she lost them. People stayed home.
Staying home this election was a vote for Trump. Hope they like it.
At a certain point Democrats are going to have to remember that they can’t just rely on the other side being worse. If you don’t sell yourself to your voters if you don’t give them a reason to vote for you then you’re going to keep losing. They act entitled to everyone’s votes. Entitlement is a big problem when it comes to Democrats. People didn’t respond to them saying it was Hillary’s turn. People didn’t seem to respond to them saying it was Harris’s turn. Democrats don’t seem to like democracy. They claim to, but when it comes time to participating democracy they’re not big fans.
I don’t think we really need to concern ourselves with such trivial things as what the Democrats should do next time.
Democrats don’t seem to like democracy. Voters don’t care about democracy. Republicans actually hate democracy.
Why do we follow democracy again? Let’s just give Trump endless terms, once and for all.
I mean, it works with the Republican campaign, why didn’t work for the Democrats campaign? Literally, Trump spent most of his campaign demonizing the other side.
That’s what irks me about the “Harris lost because she ran a terrible campaign” argument. The reality is, Trump ran a far worse campaign. In the final months, the dude was up on stage saying stuff that made medical physicians think he was mentally declining. The guy wasn’t forming sentences, and he was talking about the size of some dudes dick.
We have all of these people trying to explain Harris’s failure without also recognizing the campaign that Trump ran. This is not a genuine way of analyzing the results of this election. The reality is Harris’s campaign had some blunders, but the Trump campaign had far more major blunders in comparison; but he still won. I would like to know how that happened…
You missed the Crux of what I said. You have to earn their votes. You have to give them what they want. That’s what Republican voters want. They want the hatred. Of course that won’t work on Democrats or leftists. If it did they’d be Republicans. What appears to be a blunder to one side is a victory to the other. If the Cheney’s had stood up there with Trump and praised him Republicans would have loved it, for the other side it made our skin crawl.
Yeah, about that ship that you think hasn’t sailed yet…
There’s not going to be a next election for you, kitties.
Why would people vote for Republican Lite, if there’s the real deal? At least now we know chasing these Republican votes was foolish and that we should campaign on universal leftist points. Right? Right???
No, it’s the voters who are wrong. FPTP requires us to vote for people in favor of FPTP.
I WAS going to do SO MUCH organizing this time… if Harris had bought us time. But alas, all strikes will go to Trump’s desk now so why even bother. /s
It’s nice to see people discussing the voting system. Nows the time to talk about opening up the electoral system to 3rd parties right for sure.
If you get the chance, swing by my ask lemmy post to discuss how you and the people of your state can pressure your leaders into implementing electoral reform.
FPTP requires us to vote for people in favor of FPTP.
Even the referendum efforts slammed into a brick wall this year
RCV failed in Missouri, Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Idaho, and (likely) in Alaska. People don’t like it as a system.
Good point. Now I’m a different kind of worried. 💀
I mean in all fairness we did tell them that exactly this would happen. It’s their open damn fault they, and the rest of us, now have to try and survive in the still-rotting corpse of democracy.
Edit, add: Their self centered, short-sighted voting choice has screwed over everybody else along with them. I’m not going to feel particularly bad about the hardships they’ve invited on themselves, whether through stupidity, logical fallacy, ignorance, emotional thinking, or (in the case of actual T supporters) actually believing blatantly stupid bullshit.
Hell, the only thing Harris voters have left is the bitter pleasure of watching the Trump voters and non-voters suffer with us. I will not extend an ounce of anything but schadenfreude their way for any bit of pain they feel as a consequence of their own actions.
Eh, never said I couldn’t wait, just that any sympathy I have is gone. Actions have consequences and I’m not gonna feel bad for people who face them and voted for them. Or earned them by not voting.
classic neoliberal compassion
At some point, “They want to see us literally dead and we just want them to have healthcare” has to become, “Well, at least they’ll die, too.”
I’m sure some of these strawman exist in a field somewhere keeping the crows away.
Democrats need to get rid of First Past The Post voting in the blue states they control. Time to admit they need help and shouldn’t be going alone against the republicans
More democracy. More chances to defeat the republicans. More people engaged and involved in the political process.
More people voting = more votes for democrats. More chances of republicans electing a more moderate candidate.Electoral reform is an absolute win for the people of this country. Except for the legacy poltical parties. They will unfortunately have to compete for your vote. If they are unable to stay relevant, that’s on them for becoming weak and frail using FPTP as a crutch.
Sadly people voted against Ranked-Choice Voting in multiple states this year also, so good luck making any progress with regards to that…
Why would the democratic party want democracy? The people in positions of power in the party got a lot of great fundraising this cycle, and they’ll be able to use the threat of this incoming disaster to raise even more!
Getting rid of FPTP in only blue states will make it more likely for the Republicans to win overall, as they will take all of the FPTP red state and some of the now proportional blue states
Imagine unironically making this meme. I envy the history students in 2138 who get to study this crap and scratch their heads
The History students of the Future will watch all those who sat by as complicit in the rise of an authoritarian racist President in the USA
I’m pretty sure the anti-genocide people were the ones violently confronting Nazis four years ago while the Democratic mainstream said that wasnt the right way to do things.
Probably lots of overlap with the people who blockaded and flooded airports and courts to stop the Muslim ban.
Probably closely related to the people who put their bodies on the line and blockaded ICE detention facilities.
I’d bet they were involved in organizing the BLM protests too.
Nah, man.
The real Antifa are the ones brunching and quietly judging while they sip their mimosas.
quietly?
Fair point.
The history is already set. The dems ran a mediocre campaign after the sitting president flubbed a debate and lied about his physical ailments. It was a campaign so out of touch with voters that they lost the entire government.
Depend what they will write in history books…
Imagine not understanding first past the post elections and harm reduction.
The people of Palestine asked us to vote against Trump. But they’re not worth listening to. They’re not even real.
DID she really understand FPTP if she wouldn’t acknowledge it as a problem?
Yes. It’s not a problem for her.
But your question makes me think you don’t… FPTP benefits the two major parties. It’s completely illogical to think they would not like it.
Or did you mean that she should’ve lied about her real opinion on order to get more votes?
Evidently it was a problem for her.
I don’t really buy that the “leftists sank kamala” narrative is accurate. There’s just two Americas and one is bigger than the other.
It’s not. The Harris campaign made the decision to not break from Biden on Israel, at the cost of at least a +6 points gain. That’s the fault of the campaign’s calculations to ignore those voters, take them for granted, and instead run to the right with Liz Cheney and having the most lethal Military. That single policy change would have secured her the swing states needed to win the election.
I voted for Harris and told others to do the same. It’s still on the campaign to earn votes to win. Blaming voters is just sowing division when we need unity and solidarity to fight against Fascism.
Quote
Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.
- Split Ticket (July 2024)
Quotes
In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
- New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)
Quotes
- Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)
Quotes
Quotes
Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
How do you explain the drop in the dem vote between 2020 and 2024 then?
Uh, COVID-19? When Trump was president?
Uh, wut? That’s your whole explanation?
To elaborate, COVID-19 was absolutely impossible to ignore. It made everyone feel miserable, and it got them to turn out to vote for Biden.
This year? No such disaster shoving its way into people’s lives. Out of sight, out of mind.
I don’t think Lemmy people grasp how insulated/isolated most ‘swing’ or ‘sometimes’ voters are. They know tiny nuggets of politics that are fed to them through social feeds or whatever, and COVID-19 was like a bulldozer mowing through their house. Ironically, it got people active.
Its going to be interesting seeing the Republicans do their batshit policies, as people REALLY hate having their bottle taken away (“bottle” in this case being the ACA, prices of goods, abortion access, etc.)
The United States just needs a reminder of just how bad things can be. They’ll learn if you keep hitting them hard enough…
This sums it up for me in 5 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0eq7VNCcYY
ignores core voter issues
spends entire campaign talking about how opponent is worse
Tells entire uncommitted voter base to fuck off
“Why did the voters do this to us? Those must be 10 million russian/maga/chinese shills in disguise.”
Clearly it’s the voters who are wrong.
In the context of people that claimed to care about the genocide, yep - the voters were undeniably wrong. That doesn’t make the Democrats any more right.
https://youtu.be/wCl33v5969M?si=GKzEjX4q2RwrINj9
A great video talking about that thought
I would tell the entire “uncommitted” voter base to fuck off. Here, I’ll do it again… “fffffuck off”.
The main things these clowns are uncommitted to are democracy, rule of law, secular society, the constitution, justice, etc.
And now, unsurprisingly, they have helped enable a fascist authoritarian takeover of the United States by taking our democracy hostage in the name of some stupid ~1500 year old holy war and a shitty piece of land governed and funded by the worst possible people. Is that good politics? Is that supposed to win people over?
So, in return, I’m now “uncommitted” to giving half a shit what happens to them, here or abroad. The people who didn’t vote to stop Trump are to blame for what happens next.
“I only care what happens to me in my country and give no shits about what happens to the rest of humanity that is brought about by what my country does. They can kill all those people so long as I have the freedoms those people are fighting for. Oh and I hope I can buy eggs for not an expensive price while my country is intrinsic in starving another population for no good reason”
Surely, Doland J Trump and his administration will fix all these problems and will not make them worse.
Good thing I didn’t vote so that this stable genius with a traceable track record can take office and lead the World in peace and justice.
Right? That’s what you’re saying?
No that’s not what I said at all I didn’t even mention trump but sure
Ah right, didn’t mention Trump but commented in a thread on a meme about Trump, replied to a comment regarding voters abstaining from voting in a US election in which Trump won, and made sarcastic “high ground” comment. Are you lost?
- If you had any valid point to criticize what I said you wouldn’t have to make shit up and put words in my mouth.
- Neither of my countries created the situation in Israel/Palestine or the war that has been waging more than 50 years before I was born.
- The Palestinians aren’t fighting for “freedoms” any more than the Israelis are, and both countries were a fabrication of the United Kingdom and the League of Nations. Netenyahu and Hamas were both fighting for conquest and genocide against the other side, in the latest chapter of a holy war over delusion religious cults that have nothing to do with me or my life. I believe in a peaceful two-state solution, it’s the Israelis and the Palestinians who unfortunately don’t.
- The Unites States under Biden delivered more aide, food, and civilian resources into Gaza than any other country or organization on Earth. Is that our responsibility? Do we really have a duty to feed the world when we have people living homeless, starving and diseased in our own country? I really don’t think so. Palestine has powerful allies in the region and abroad that they can beg from.
- I would argue that it is the Gaza-fanatics who put humanity and the world in danger when you look at the existential threats we face from the prospects of World War 3 and climate change, these people held American democracy and hegemony hostage in the name of their pet project which has little-to-nothing to do with America in the first place.
Ultimately you can try to blame me all you want, but I did my part to help Gaza by voting for the person who was most likely to handle the situation the nuance and compassion required. Likewise, I voted against the person who will obviously give Netanyahu carte blanche to do whatever the fuck he wants with Palestine and the Palestinians. I’ll continue to vote for the better candidate and against the worst one, will you?
You do not need to say that. They already in fact fucked off because the DNC told them to. And did not vote for Harris.
I hope you are very happy. The DNC threw away those free votes.
https://youtu.be/wCl33v5969M?si=GKzEjX4q2RwrINj9
Here’s a 33 minute video explaining the tactics the right uses and the failures the Dems have in dealing with them. Please watch it. It is very interesting to learn about and too complicated to be summed up in a Lemmy comment.
Sure is going to be difficult to enact change when met with a regime that wants to regress. Hope that y’all who didn’t vote are happy with the outcome cause I sure ain’t.
Which part is the humor part?
Lol the downvotes? Let’s see, the full context here…
“Basically, there really is no such thing as — I need to be careful about saying this, because people will really get upset — there’s really no such thing as a Palestinian,” Huckabee said at a 2008 campaign stop in Massachusetts while speaking to two Orthodox Jewish men. “There’s not.”
In response to a question from one of the men about the possibility of a Palestinian state existing outside of Israel, Huckabee said he believed this was the preferable option.
“You have Arabs and Persians,” Huckabee continued at the 2008 appearance. “And there’s such complexity in that. But there’s really no such thing [as a Palestinian state]. That’s been a political tool to try and force land away from Israel.”
Question. Would Harris have done better if she had a more tough stance on Isreal? Like what votes would she have lost if she committed to ending the genicide? The Arab and Muslim coalitions at the DNC told them that the Muslim and Arab vote was at risk if the Biden administration didn’t change course and that Harris would lose their support if she didn’t come out with a concrete plan to end the genicide…
In my opinion it was a huge mistake to back Isreal in this election. It’s not like zionest or evangelical Christians were going to vote blue anyways. Why turn your back on millions of voters in swing states for genicide. Total head scratcher of a decision. Biden nor Harris said they’d work towards a two state solution or allow the UN to enforce and demiliterize both sides. The most support I heard from either was the day before the election. Harris said she’d seek a ceasefire but that was it.
Voting is inherently transactional. The Arab and Muslim Americans told the party what they needed to do to secure their support and the party said no.
