Looks like people voted no to slavery, but the question asked do you not support slavery.
The answer should have been (yes) I do not support slavery.
Instead (no) I do not support slavery.
I can image a good chunk of people got confused with the wording, and I myself am still confused reading it.
Your wording is more confusing to me
This is the ballot text, it’s not really confusing at all.
The link you supplied clears it all up. No way anyone could have misunderstood the vote, the ballot even outlines what yes and no mean in the context.
I think I now agree with what krashmo said in the thread below.
“Or maybe Americans are largely shitty people. Stop trying to excuse the behavior and accept it for what it is”
The part that was most surprising to me was this:
ARGUMENTS
PRO Proposition 6 ends slavery in California and upholds human rights and dignity for everyone. It replaces carceral involuntary servitude with voluntary work programs, has bipartisan support, and aligns with national efforts to reform the 13th Amendment. It will prioritize rehabilitation, lower recidivism, and improve public safety, resulting in taxpayer savings.
CON No argument against Proposition 6 was submitted.
No one came out in opposition? Not even the bureau of prisons, or the warden’s union‽‽ And it still didn’t pass?
Edit: I, and all my housemates claim to have, voted for this proposition, and actually all the propositions I had on my ballot in IB to pass. It’s truly disheartening to see that all the other props that mattered less than this one passed, and this one that literally seems to have no downsides is potentially failing.
For reference, the downsides of almost every single other proposition on the IB ballot would increase various taxes, and all of them passed. WTELF you stupid NIMBYS‽‽‽
The props are worded so insanely that without hours of prep, I would vote incorrectly.
My state banned ranked choice voting by an insane margin because it was worded like “only citizens should be allowed to vote, and each citizen only gets one vote each!” Literally two Google searches would clear it up if people had more critical thinking skills
That’s what I’d call a rigged election.
This is also one of the downsides of citizen ballot initiatives. The proponent can usually word things however they want.
In Mass., I know they have a strict judicial review for the language. It requires a clear and fair statement, and it gets refined through a unique type of litigation.
Call for resistance? You can get enough Americans to get off their arse to vote every four years?
You can’t get most Americans to stop playing Fortnight or watching Dancing with the stupid Stars to even pay attention to the country
To be fair, and that’s being very fair, it does end with “allowing involuntary servitude as a punishment for crime” and a case could be made for confusing wording.
This is the ballot text, it’s not really confusing at all.
Oh wow, that’s actually explained very well. Fair enough, y’all just want slavery I guess lol
But only as a punishment for a crime. Like the new felony theft of a toothbrush from the other proposition we have definitely passed. (Made what was previously misdemeanor theft into felony theft, and yes we still have a 3 strikes law to imprison you for life.)
California is not some progressive bastion. It’s a conservative state that doesn’t bother the LGBTQ community.
I think it’s really just an obvious proof of the complete and total lack of reading comprehension that most citizens have here.
The Arguments section is unfortunately left out on actual ballots. I could see a lot of the less research-inclined citizens interpret that as simple community service and not straight up indentured servitude.
Unfortunately, most things can be attributed to stupidity rather than malice. Had they put the word slavery on the ballots I’d hope we’d see a better split
Everyone gets a booklet with all the analysis and arguments in it, weeks before the election. There is very little that could have been done to make this more clear. At some point it’s just reprehensible. We don’t look back at chattel slavery and hem and haw about education. Neither should we do so here.
I’m aware. That’s why I say the less inclined. Gotta ask ourselves how many are actually reading the booklet or even taking more than 5 seconds to process the ballot blurb.
Google is also right at everyone’s fingertips yet misinformation is still prevalent everywhere. Some people are just stupid.
Unfortunately, there are lots of them.
It hasn’t been called yet but I certainly didn’t have California votes to be a slave state on my 2024 bingo card.
I think it’ll be a few days before everything is counted, since California is pretty slow. That said, conservative turnout seems pretty high so I wouldn’t be surprised if it fails.
Yeah, we generally are an example of the 5 day rule as I saw a text book call it. Basically nothing is certain until five days after an election. The reason for V days is because it covers a full work week roughly.
Too bad the same can’t be said about the national election this time. Looks like the rent control one isn’t going well either, which is bananas given a majority of voters are renters.
There was a massive push in the last week to tell people it would end all new housing developments, triple rent, and make us all homeless. All of the major newspapers and the governor came out on that line.
Which is ridiculous of course but there was no time to refute it.
I didn’t know the governor said that. And the cons so exist, but really only to landlords and rich people like him.
I’ll be honest that rent control isn’t perfect though. A band aid at best.
What were the ad campaigns like around this proposition?
There were none. It had no opposition either.
I dunno, I voted for it, but California has HUGE conservative areas and the notion of working off your sentence isn’t exactly new or seen as particularly cruel by most. Also the comparisons to slavery will fall on deaf ears because it’s as much slavery as imprisoning people is kidnapping.
If you are OK with prisons, forced labor within them isn’t going to seem significantly harsher.
Isn’t work in prisons usually a privilege? Is this something that is actually used? What happens when someone just doesn’t do what is asked of them?
That’s bad behavior and more time.
Cool, thanks for the info. So, for everything except extreme cases where someone is going to be imprisoned until they die it is negatively impactful.
They used to do “hard time” and make prisoners crush rocks with hammers to make gravel.
Solitary confinement, bread and water meals, and even beatings by guards have been reported by prisoners.
Oh go away, they did not vote for “slavery”. They voted to allow making convicted felons work as part of their sentence. It’s slavery in the same sense that working to buy food and pay rent is “slavery”. Metaphorically yes, but calling it slavery devalues the experiences of all the people who were kidnapped from their homes, brought here in chains on ships, and sold in a market.
Hey, would you look at that, chattel slavery isn’t the only type. That is amazing, no one could have guessed that until right now, after I looked it up. It is almost like it being called chattel slavery implies multiple forms of slavery. Wow, this is so new, and novel.
Yeah it’s a big world! Here’s another new thing for you - look up “Indentured servitude”. It’s where you are forced to work to pay off a debt or something, but it’s not “slavery” and nobody owns you. Kind of like in prison.
Look up the 13th amendment, and why they had to write in an exclusionary clause to it because, even people from a time of chattel slavery practice, knew this was slavery too, and not indentured servitude, which stayed legal for decades afterwards! The factors making it slavery are quite eloquently explained, namely that indentured servitude was a contract the indentured servant had to agree to! Isn’t that neat? It wasn’t legally forced on them! Wanna know something else cool? The fact that it is a contractual agreement is STILL the definition!
Just like uncle Tom, working in the house so he could make a living…as a slave. But hey, they fed and clothed him, so is it still slavery?
“Just like?” I dunno, was Tom in prison for committing crimes or did somebody just kidnap him or his ancestors and say okay you’re a slave now? If you’re going to ignore that difference this conversation is pointless.
Right because the US is known for having a very fair “justice” system
The better question is, was he in prison due to unjust laws and unfair application of law due to the colour of his skin? Fuck it, they’re locked up, force to him work regardless.
That’s always A question in an individual case, but assuming convicts are innocent isn’t rational.
And neither is forcing them into labour
People likely voted for not repealing the provision allowing involuntary servitude as a punishment for crime and not for keeping slavery.
Whoever thought combining those two things in one vote was a good idea is an idiot
Its a form of slavery…
No, it’s a form of punishment. It can be avoided by not committing crimes.
You must be either young and ignorant or don’t know how crime is set up here in America.
Like the crime of not being paid enough to afford housing?
In what 3rd world country you have to commit crimes to afford housing?
In the several states where it is a crime to be homeless. Such as the 24 states with laws restricting “loitering” in public spaces. Or the 16 states that do the same, but in all spaces. Or the 15 states where pitching a tent in public locations is illegal. Or the 4 states that do that, but in all spaces. Or the 6 states where sleeping or lying down in public is illegal. Or the 4 states where it is illegal to sleep in a vehicle.
Because no innocent person is ever wrongly locked up, right?
So release everyone from prison, because a minority of inmates are wrongly locked up.
You said slavery could be avoided by not committing crimes. I showed that is not true.
Nah, slavery is still slavery. Tons of US businesses are currently propped up by prisoner workers who they don’t have to pay practically anything, and who can’t walk off the job, and who can’t really complain too much, AND, conveniently, aren’t employed by that company so they can bypass labor laws like break times, safety regulations, and working hours.
It’s slavery as punishment. Which is still slavery.
It can be avoided by not committing crimes.
In a justice system functioning perfectly? Sure! In the US one, on the other hand…
You should read literally anything about the US prison industry, mass incarceration, or war on drugs. The fact that America has the world’s largest prison population, that companies make money from this, and that the people who get imprisoned are largely non-white couldn’t possibly be related right?
It is literally slavery.
Let me know if you change your position on that if you’re ever convicted and sentenced to prison for a crime you did not commit.
Maybe we should be treating people humanely regardless of their criminal record? They are in prison to become reformed citizens, not to be our slave laborers.
Now is when you can realize you’re wrong, learn, and edit your comment.
Teach me, oh glory American. I am just a stupid German.
Teach you how forcing someone to do labor and be treated like a financial asset is slavery?
Well that’s easy. You open up your English textbook, you look up the word slavery, and you look at the definition.
Here, I’ll do the work for you:
“plural noun: slaves 1. a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be their property; an enslaved person.”
Or do you mean, how is this situation slavery? It’s also pretty simple. The American prison system is for-profit. The government is incentivized to arrest more people because they have minimum quotas to meet when putting people in prison. Otherwise they pay extra on the contracts. The prison employees are considered assets in this situation. And those prison employees are put to work with no or little pay.
But I do understand. English is a very complicated language and the intricacies of the US prison system are not well known in other countries, I imagine. Thank you for asking for help.
Look at this guy over here who thinks there aren’t any innocent people in prison.
You can be enslaved in the US for the crime of not having enough money to afford a place to live.
I always forget you Americans hate social welfare systems.
Maybe it’d be a good idea to familiarize yourself with the problems in the US before making sweeping statements about them, in that case.
