- cross-posted to:
- truthabouttimwalz@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- truthabouttimwalz@lemmy.world
Kamala Harris’s running mate urges popular vote system but campaign says issue is not part of Democrats’ agenda
Tim Walz, the Democratic vice-presidential nominee, has called for the electoral college system of electing US presidents to be abolished and replaced with a popular vote principle, as operates in most democracies.
His comments – to an audience of party fundraisers – chime with the sentiments of a majority of American voters but risk destabilising the campaign of Kamala Harris, the Democratic presidential candidate, who has not adopted a position on the matter, despite having previously voiced similar views.
“I think all of us know, the electoral college needs to go,” Walz told donors at a gathering at the home of the California governor, Gavin Newsom. “We need a national popular vote. We need to be able to go into York, Pennsylvania, and win. We need to be in western Wisconsin and win. We need to be in Reno, Nevada, and win.”
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It is the single most logical and devastating blow that the democratic party could work on to stop fascism.
Disallow corporate entities from owning residential property.
Increase minimum wage.
Break up monopolies and oligopolies to reintroduce competition. Get off this “stop price gouging greedflation” horse shit. Break up monopolies and oligopolies, lower the bar to competition.
End forced arbitration outright.
Set a maximum document length limit to stop frivolous lawsuits, “drowning in paperwork”.
Set term limits for all govt positions, especially SCOTUS.
Harsher punishments to corporations. No more of these fines that are simply the cost of doing business. C suite execs should do time on behalf of law breaking ‘corpirate citizens.’
Tax the fuck of our anything making over $100M in profit. I mean, the fuck out of it.
I agree with all of this and I think many people on Lemmy do as well. My concern is: Will the population that is excited to vote for candidates that are willing to push these changes through have the staying power?
These are huge changes to a system that has been manipulated to benefit a small group of well connected, very powerful, very wealthy people. It’s not something that can change in one or even two presidential terms. These are changes that will take many election cycles to complete. These, and other big changes, need sustained focus.
Not saying it can’t be done - it can. The republican party has proven that. Over the course of 40+ years they have reshaped America to fit their ideals. But it took 40 years. One part of how they did it was/is by keeping the pressure on their voting base even during non-election years through FOX news, rush limbaugh, alex jones, and other pieces of shit. So when it was time to vote their base was already “educated” on why they had to vote for the republican candidate. It made/makes it easy for the republican candidate to step in and just say the right words and phrases to the voting population and they were guaranteed a certain % of the vote.
So if the left wants to re-shape how America looks and how it treats it’s population then they have to be willing to play the long game.
I agree with everything here except the concept that there’s such a thing as a non-election year, which is a big part of the reason the engagement discrepancy you’re talking about exists in the first place.
Agreed with everything except getting rid of ec, increasing the minimum wage, and taxing the fuck out of corps for an arbitrary profit margin.
But damn. Solid otherwise.
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Easier to think I’m a troll than to believe someone could say those words and be serious?
Well I’m not. So strengthen up buddy boy.
Yes, I would rather think you’re a troll than beleive someone is actually seriously that cruel and dumb. It’s better for my mental health.
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but campaign says issue is not part of Democrats’ agenda
Fucking hell! Every time either of them says something truly based, some DNC lackey comes and spoils it by saying that! 🤬
It’s not like Walz or Harris can do anything about it anyway. Legal scholars have said that it would take a Constitutional amendment to change the electoral college system to anything else, as it is mandated by the Constitution.
Amending the Constitution requires ratification by 75% of the 50 US states after passing a 2/3 majority of Congress.
It’s best to be realistic and not get worked up about things you can’t do anything about.
Did you have a comment reply to make? I’m not watching anybody’s youtube link.
There’s a way to circumvent the electoral college without a constitutional amendment. It’s called the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. It’s in progress, but not triggered yet until a few more states adopt it.
If states totaling at least 270 electoral votes sign on, then it kicks in. Every state in the compact will send the electors for the party that wins the national popular vote, regardless of how their state votes. Electoral college rendered meaningless without a constitutional amendment.
(The video is good, it’s CGP Grey’s explanation of this compact.)
Thanks
This is just like all those times Republican candidates hedged about Roe v Wade… right up until they finally got it overturned. Sure, the majority of voters agree the EC is outdated and needs to go; but saying as much can scare moderates, and doesn’t get you any new liberal voters. Never forget, “undecided” voters in the US are just fickle assholes who don’t want to vote for someone who “feels” too conservative or liberal. Unfortunately, with FPTP voting, they carry a lot of weight.
I can understand the strategy this time
One of the big motivators for the left is that Trump has made credible threats about undermining votes and folks have signed up for it. A fear of having your voice forever silenced in the political system is a strong motivator. You can see because pundits for Trump keep trying to turn it around and say “nuh uh, the Democrats are the ones that will take away your voice”, which generally rings hollow because there’s zero history or rhetoric in the Democratic party to even suggest that.
This could be the sort of rhetoric those Republicans have been wanting. A Democrat proposing a fundamental change to the biggest election that everyone knows would usually prevent a Republican win for that office. We wouldn’t have had either Republican president in the last 30 years. This could energize scared Republicans or feed the “but both sides” distraction.
It may make tons of sense, but it’s a huge risk of scaring people to vote against Democrats that might have otherwise sat it out.
For real, ENOUGH already with the milquetoast Dem leadership being so terrified of actually taking a stand about any issue.
I think at this point pretty much everyone I’ve ever talked to thinks the electoral college is bullshit. Even my dad and he’s a trumper.
It makes sense to exist… In the 40’s.
But with modern day society and how small the world has become, it makes no sense to me to still exist tbh…1840s. It existed to preserve slavery
Even in the 1940s it didn’t make sense anymore.
While I agree with him, it’s also a stupid thing to say out loud during the election when they’re CLEARLY trying to sway moderate and uneasy right leaning voters.
I think the electoral college has become pretty unpopular with pretty much everyone except committed republicans in recent years
It’s become unpopular with everyone except the people who originally demanded it so they could count their slaves as 3/5 of a vote.
I’m pretty sure it’s still very popular for a lot of Republicans considering that conservatives have only won the popular vote once in the last 35-ish years. The only time they won was George W. Bush’s second term after the events of 9/11 and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Small suggestion to use “enslaved people’s” rather than “slaves”
Why though? We call baking people bakers, why shouldn’t we call enlaved people slaves?
It’s not as if their circumstances become more human that way.
This very succinctly summarizes what I hate about the “unhoused” brand of pedantry. Pretty sure they want shelter more than some rich college kid making sure everyone on the internet gets their fucking nouns right.
Changing the language you use about a thing changes your perception of that thing. This is data driven reality of making small changes to the way you talk actively changes the thought process on it. You can be lazy and not do it, it’s your own language. But that’s all your doing. Being lazy, or actively reactionary.
It’s just good to reinforce the idea that enslaved people’s were people who were enslaved. Not a profession, slave was not their job, it was their status.
Plus studies have shown that by using these people first language, especially while teaching the subject, results in higher empathy for enslaved people and reminds that their status as a slave was one forced upon them and continually so rather than the simple status they were born with.
It’s not a huge problem or anything, but it isn’t hard to toss in every now and then and only does good.
“Good” like derailing conversations that were about content and making them about semantics. “Good”.
God forbid someone on a thread based system bring up a related topic on the side. Like, is that really your complaint? Oh no guys, the humanization of enslaved people’s is derailing this 3rd person’s quip. Quick, we must stop him!
Silly billy you are.
It helps humanize them
Seems a lot of people here are against the humanizing of enslaved people’s. Weird.
Honestly, I think people just find you annoying more than anything specific to what you’re saying, but that’s just a guess.
This is the term we use in my sex dungeon.
Exactly, the result is decided but free starts and for example Republicans in California and New York feel their vote doesn’t matter at all.
not the undecided swing state voters.
with the amount of money being spent to woo swing state voters I feel like being an “undecided voter” is some kind of career at this point
Maybe they’re finally realizing that instead of chasing right wing voters they should try to tap into the much larger pool of left-wing voters. Or at least one can hope.
The programs that Walz champions speak for themselves.
I very much doubt that. Their metric is fundraising, and the money/rich people is/are on the right.
The real money is from corporations. And they don’t give a fuck about social issues. So long as they get their free pass to fleece the masses.
Lol
His comments – to an audience of party fundraisers – chime with the sentiments of a majority of American voters
I guess you missed this bit
I think I want him to be president.
Rank choice voting for all federal elections
Approval/STAR*
I also highly recommend this analysis of STAR and RCV
Appreciate the links. This is kind of my thing.
Edit: As a big Ranked Choice voting advocate, this was a interesting and informative read. I never did think about this particular situation:
RCV doesn’t take all rankings from all ballots into account and so is not the most accurate way of counting ranked ballots. If your first choice candidate is eliminated in later rounds your second, third, or fourth choices may never be counted. (Ranked Pairs, Schultz, and Bucklin Voting are much more accurate ways to count ranked ballots.)
I will need to go over this a few more times, but it seems I am going to switch my preference to STAR as well because of your comment.
Really anything other then First-past-the-post will do, but it’s nice to look ahead and plan for a future where people are free to vote for who best represents them.
Thanks again.
The sneaky thing about RCV that the second link points out is the the fact that RCV doesn’t actually eliminate the spoiler effect. A way to think about is that RCV is idential to FPTP, just done over several instant rounds. So it has some of the same issues, just lessened.
The electoral college is good for one thing and one thing only: boosting confidence that election fraud in one place won’t impact the result of the election.
Winner takes all was always stupid and needs to be replaced with proportional allocation, preferably with a more direct ratio to the actual population of votes. Basically, everyone doing what Nebraska and Maine do.
It’s also really good for making sure that whoever wins the most acres of land gets a huge electoral boost. Because that’s important.
what if we make a compromise on the land area, say 3/5?
It’s also really good for making sure that whoever wins the most acres of land gets a huge electoral boost. Because that’s important.
Is it? The most disproportionate representation in the EC belongs to the people of Delaware, last time I ran the numbers of EC votes per capita.
State population is all that matters. Very small populations still get an EC vote for each Senator, which is the root of the problem.
Delaware has 3 electoral votes and a population of 1.018 million.
Wyoming has 3 electoral votes and a population of 584,000.
Wyoming is almost twice as over-represented as Delaware in the electoral college.
California currently has 54 electoral votes. If CA was as represented in the electoral college as Wyoming is, it would have 200 votes.
So you could argue that both Wyoming and California can claim to be more disproportionately represented by the EC than Delaware.
Lol, wrong. Delaware’s surpassed by like 6 other states. Wyoming is the most disproportionally represented per voter.
Ah, Wikipedia makes it really easy to list by per capita representation.
The top 10 in “lowest population per electoral vote”:
Wyoming Vermont District of Columbia Alaska North Dakota Montana Rhode Island South Dakota Delaware Maine
Tim Walz is 100% correct. Dump the out dated Electoral College.
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Watch Trump win the electoral college again and Democrats not use that as a rallying point to abolish it.
Don’t worry. As soon as Waltz said an overwhelmingly positive thing, Kamala distanced herself from it.
They give you a bag of snakes and demand you reach in and pick one. Both will kill you with a single bite. It really doesn’t matter which you pick when they control your choices in the first place. I refuse to vote, it will make no difference if Harris wins or Trump, the loosing party will do everything in their power to defeat everything the winner tries to do for good, unless they can profit from it. It will just be more of the internal civil war over money. Our leaders will get richer, corporations will get tax cuts and the people will PAY!
Normally I would agree, but it seems riskier this time around to have that mindset. Trump and his people want to do some serious damage and I believe that they will put in all the effort they can to do it.
It’s actually scary this time round
It’s scary every time around. This attitude is what got us someone who stalled on even admitting climate change was a thing for almost a decade instead of Al Gore in 2000. Like sure not as fraught as now but imagine being a decade ahead on implementing green policies even if those policies were watered down.
It’s really like their own little game. We are just the peices. Neither party is working for us. They just work for themselves. But they have split up the issues to make sure the majority of the people have something to hate. And to play their game they need to do things to keep that hate going. So which one wins determines which hate will get applied. So your vote matters on that plane.
k
Probably not the popular opinion, but I think EC is important to America being what it is & as large as it is. From Wikipedia:
The electoral college is fundamental to American federalism, in that it requires candidates to appeal to voters outside large cities, and increases the political influence of more rural states. Whether by design or accident, one of its effects is to help prevent a tyranny of the majority that would ignore the less densely populated heartland and rural states in favor of the mega-cities
Imo without the EC, the Democrats would just roll the elections and the entire Republican party would have to pivot. Serving the rural / conservative view would be a losing strategy. Then resentment would grow that a big cultural force in America no longer has any say
Say it ain’t so… the Republican party would need to become more attractive to moderate conservatives and be less alienating? What a travesty that would be.
Conservativism, as it exists in modern America, is simply a fringe belief that only survives because of our broken ass election system that forces us into two parties.
So your plan is to hand power to the minority of people? And you think we should agree to this minoritarianism, because the rural / conservative view holders would get resentful?
Why don’t we just hand the country back to the indigenous people and let them, an even bigger minority than the rurals, run shit for a while?
Anyway "rural / conservative view"s are already represented in their communities, towns, cities, and states. By their local, city, and state governments.
And by your “logic” shouldn’t all those conservative counties that vote red be forced to give greater weight to their liberal residents, yah know so their liberal voices aren’t drowned out and they suddenly become resentful or something.
Yay anti American vice presidential candidate!
How is proposing a change to our electoral system “anti-American”?
Was it “anti-American” to want to end slavery? After all, it was a part of our country’s systemic history.
Was it “anti-American” to give women the right to vote? The constitution pretty clearly didn’t give them that right.
Tell us you don’t know what you’re talking about without actually telling us.
Yay anti American comment!
