The president often had a weak, raspy voice during his first debate against Trump, in what Democrats had hoped would be a turning point in the race.
Sounds good. I will enthusiastically vote for Biden. Let’s go.
Can you spread that enthusiasm to 82 million more people?
Yes.
The gaslighting ran out of gas
There’s a rumor that they are going to replace Biden with Jimmy Carter, so he can get a second term. I joke.
I watched about 30 minutes, gotta say Trump was all over the map and not answering questions. Biden was raspy and stuttered, like he does , but he actually answered the questions. Trumps answer about what he would do about the fentanyl crisis was ‘I bought a dog’
When asked if he supports some restrictions on abortion, Biden said he “supports Roe v. Wade, which had three trimesters. The first time is between a woman and a doctor. Second time is between a doctor and an extreme situation. A third time is between the doctor, I mean, between the women and the state.”
He missed a slam dunk when he pivoted from abortion to immigration, there was no logical reason to do that. Let alone some of his other statements. We need an open convention, if Trump is as big of a threat to democracy as Dems (accurately) claim then it is far past time that they start acting like it.
He missed a slam dunk when he pivoted from abortion to immigration, there was no logical reason to do that.
The Republican strategy has been to focus on immigration as the root of all economic evil. And since Biden’s economic gains have been heavily overstated, he’s forced right back into the old “We have to force foreigners out in order to keep our wealth in” fascist politics.
We need an open convention
Idk who this “We” is supposed to be. Are you speaking as a well-positioned party superdelegate, member of the DNC leadership committee, or mega-donor? Or are you some internet armchair asshole watching this trainwreck from the nosebleed seats?
Yep, that was so much worse than I ever imagined it was going to be.
I expected nothing and I was still disappointed.
People who aren’t the VBNMW crowd saw the writing on the wall for Biden. This debate only helped Trump even tho Trump literally didn’t answer anything. That is Trump’s style all insults or jokes and no substance. Not sure what happens here it is way too late to switch to anyone else. We’re cooked.
I heard quite a few people earlier in the year stating that the plan was for Joe to bow out last minute due to health issue, and announce that Michelle Obama would be the candidate. I know it’s probably not likely, but it’s an exciting thought. Someone like Newsom would be another decent option
That would be way too risky, and I like Obama and Biden wasn’t even my first choice!
Sanders, on the other hand…
that was the worst fucking thing i’ve seen on tv in my life. holy shit that was depressing. yet it feels incredibly vindicating seeing every single media outlet openly say ‘that was a disaster, he should probably be out’. that was an absolute failure. rescheduling the debate would look better than that shit.
Suburbanite eggs? I hate that elitest shit! Also, didn’t Mark Russell die last year?
I think he died before we beat Medicare.
seeing every single media outlet openly say 'that was a disaster, he should probably be out.’
So it should be easy to source a couple of them saying that, right?
There was a 12 point swing towards Trump in the before and after CNN flash poll. That’s bad. That’s wake everyone up and reef the sails because an out of season hurricane blew up on us bad.
you’re quibbling about sources after that?
i mean ok:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-debate-performance-democrats-panic-rcna157279
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4745090-biden-debate-disaster-democrats-concerned/
The debate wasn’t that bad and none of those articles contained the quote you used.
It’s very important not to practice self-deception in these kind of things
Why would democrats start now? They’re acting exactly like they did with Clinton and are expecting different results.
It was painful to watch. You go in wanting to watch Biden look strong and smart, and he came out looking sort of senile and slow. Trump might have told all lies but he still looked and sounded sharper than Biden and that is what people will use to make a decision.
💯
I think you may have been watching the wrong debate
the take away from social media is fascinating, especially on the lemmyverse: the pejorative stores about biden’s performance are everywhere online and tv, but heavily downvoted on .world while the rest of the lemmyverse is much more closely matched with everything else in the world.
I’m not in a panic. I knew this. Should he have run again? Hell no. I wish he would have had the courage to call it a day.
That being said, I’m fully willing to endure 4 years of Weekend at Bernie’s if it means I won’t have to go through the embarrassment of having the orange moron at the helm.
We’ll need to see the polling in about a week but I haven’t seen a performance this bad since Palin. The Democrats may need to go to an open convention.
Embarrassment and danger.
There’s no danger. Even frail Biden is 1000x more competent than trump
Danger from Trump getting elected
After he wins the election, he could retire and let Harris rule in his stead.
Then there’s Schumer (provided he’s still the majority leader.)
There really is no need for a weekend at Bernie’s situation.
The tradition for an out-of-it pres is the first lady runs the show.
I’m okay with that. Jill is fine. Better than Melania.
I’m fully willing to endure 4 years of Weekend at Bernie’s if it means I won’t have to go through the embarrassment of having the orange moron at the helm.
DEAR PLEASE GOD someone turn this into comedic satire before the election!!!
Are you willing to let Trump win though than have Biden step aside? That is what the DNC should be asking themselves. The polls are way to close for Biden to have that poor of a performance. If Democrats are seriously worried about Trump being the end of Democracy then they would not be okay with Biden being the DNC’s best choice.
While I agree, it’s way too late in the game to change up now. There’s no strong candidate waiting in the wings. It’s not about willing, it’s about alternatives.
Gretchen Whitmer would run away with the election. Plus, we get Michigan (swing state) and the suburban moms. I really can’t see a downside.
There are so many better options at this point. I can’t help but shake that the two party system is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Make people think that mediocrity is the best we can get if we’re lucky.
We got FDR and LBJ and Lincoln and Washington. So if you think that then that’s on your own faulty thinking.
You’re free to keep supporting Biden at this point but hopefully when you see all the Democratic news outlets saying the same things tomorrow and this coming week and the polls showing Biden’s support dropping you’ll reconsider
There doesn’t have to be a strong candidate, just anyone stronger than Biden who’s basically zombie-crawling across the floor.
He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.
.
This is the way the DNC set their rules up, they’ve been ok using the system to kneecap progressives, I see no reason that they shouldn’t do that to Biden. I’m not precious about the DNC and I have no illusion that it’s democratic, so they just need to stop pretending they’re being held back by principles and just pull the levers they always pull to control the convention outcome.
.
He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.
He absolutely can’t be legally replaced unless he agrees to that. And the replacement would automatically be Harris unless she agrees to allow someone else. The DNC charter says that only the voters can select the nominee. Changing that charter this close to an election likely wouldn’t stand up in courts. The only way to replace Biden would be to convince him to step down.
The DNC charter says that only the voters can select the nominee.
They argued in court that they could ignore this.
AOC would be a really strong candidate. The right would freak out and she’d end up getting more press coverage than Trump. I imagine she’d make several Republican’s embolisms pop.
Yes, she’s probably the only one with enough name recognition and veracity to take on the orange moron in my opinion. Problem is corporate Democrats wouldn’t back her because she’s too progressive and that goes against their corporate masters.
True… However if Trump gets elected and our government is able to prevent a dictatorship, in 4 years progressives will hopefully realize the DNC needs them more than they need need the DNC.
in 4 years progressives will hopefully realize the DNC needs them more than they need need the DNC.
the progressives already know that the dnc needs them more than they need the dnc as evidenced by dnc surrogates perpetually shaming progressives for not voting for the dnc; i’m guessing there’s a typo in your sentence somewhere, but i’m not sure where.
If the progressives truly thought that then the US would have a much different stance in regards to Israel.
The party would rather lose democracy forever than nominate AOC.
I think it’s to late to change things up. That’s the problem, everyone told the DNC this was going to happen and yet they all just kept with Biden.
That being said, I don’t think either Trump or Biden are in a state to actually run the country. Their cabinets are going to hold all the power, and I trust Bidens cabinet over Trumps any day.
That’s the problem, everyone told the DNC this was going to happen and yet they all just kept with Biden.
What is with this absurd disconnect from reality? The DNC charter says only the voters have the power to choose the nominee.
That’s the problem, everyone told the DNC this was going to happen and yet they all just kept with Biden.
i think that’s only the tip of the iceberg; we’re going to vote for them anyways so they literally have no reason to bother listening, ever.
That’s the real danger of Donny. If you care at all about the country you have to vote for the Democrat. It gives the Dems too much power.
If this strategy allows them to win elections while putting forth the most donor friendly and least citizen friendly candidate, they’re not going to stop on their own. Go vote Biden sure but in 4 year if you don’t have a plan to ensure the next Dem candidate isn’t the least liked person whos technically better than a Republican then you’re responsible for the regression of the country.
Any change no matter if is too late or too inconvenient would be a better change for the DNC than to allow Biden at the top position. Seriously, any other DNC politician would be better than Biden even if they changed right now or in the next few months. All you need is some politician who is about 50 years old to fight Trump every day until the election and the orange menace would suffer a heart attack trying to keep up.
This is insane … it’s almost as if the powers that be want Trump to win and the only way they can ensure that is to put him up against an 80 year old competitor because it is the only candidate he could possibly beat.
Any change no matter if is too late or too inconvenient would be a better change for the DNC than to allow Biden at the top position.
It’s not up to the DNC to “allow” candidates or not. The DNC charter says the voters choose the nominee. They literally have no power to change the will of the voters. They could theoretically alter the Dem party charter, but doing so this close to an election would likely not stand up in courts. The only possible way to get a replacement candidate cough Gavin Newsom cough would be for Biden to formally ask his delegates not to select him. And since Harris would be the automatic replacement she would likely have to agree to allow someone else.
It’s not up to the DNC to “allow” candidates or not. The DNC charter says the voters choose the nominee. They literally have no power to change the will of the voters.
The DNC argued in court that they could ignore their bylaws and put their thumb on the scale as much as they wanted. Guess that only applies when they’re fucking over progressives.
At the end of the day, that’s the main takeaway here. It’s not so much the men themselves, but the people they intend to appoint to positions of authority. Biden will appoint experts and professionals to run the country for him. Trump will appoint sycophants and yes-men to do whatever he wants to do, even if it flies in the face of reason or standard procedure, and unlike last time he won’t allow anyone who isn’t 100% loyal to him to work in his administration.
I agree. I’ll vote for Biden if I have to, but if Trump wins I’m not blaming RFK Jr like they blamed Bernie and Jill Stein in 2016. I’ll blame them and likely never vote for a majority political party again.
and likely never vote for a majority political party again.
If Trump wins you will never get to vote in a free and fair election ever again.
If Trump wins you will never get to vote in a free and fair election ever again.
We heard this same talking point in 2016 but somehow we still had a 2020 election.
As if the J6 putsch didn’t happen lol
As if it was successful. The US isnt a dictatorship, the president isn’t a dictator, and last time they tried to overwhelm it with force it did little to the political institutions of our country other than scare some politicians. The same body that was under attack voted against calling it a coup.
Which will be the fault of Democrats.
This line of thought always amuses me. “It’s democrats faults for not stopping republicans from being horrible people”
Oooooorrrrr maybe it’s republicans fault… for being horrible people?
“It’s the fire departments fault my house burned down, not the guy who lit it on fire.”
The democrats should not have dressed so provocatively!
Republicans are horrible people. They gaslight, obstruct & project. Democracy is on the line here, so Democrats do the logical thing. They go to a nursing home and find someone that is talking about beating medicare to help lead them to victory.
Now I’m sad because I remember wishing Bernie had won.
You and me both, man. He was my guy.
I would. You would. But there are millions of voters who aren’t as informed. And what they saw last night was an ancient, out of touch candidate channeling Walter Mondale. Many will probably still vote for him, but this performance will depress voter turnout.
It was dumb just going along with Biden as the nominee, hubris and status quo thinking. Now the Democratic party needs to come up with something to energize the electorate. Scaring people with democracy being on the line, while completely true, isn’t gonna do it. Hoping the attacks on reproductive rights will carry them over the finish line is a bad idea. Trying to bring Harris out now into the limelight isn’t gonna work. People are tired and struggling. The youth feel betrayed and themselves are struggling. There is no energy coming from up on top. Dems have always sucked at messaging.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Show real people who have been helped by Biden’s policies in the commercials.
People don’t trust institutions anymore. They don’t trust authority anymore. But put a real person in front of them and there’s a chance a plurality won’t call them paid actors and will understand that things are getting better.
Dem leaders prefer Trump to a real structural progressive economic reform.
The billionaires buy both parties now. Capitalism sucks chunks.
The billionaires of today love the status quo.
Is a full on fascist dictatorship the “status quo” now? Surprised billionaires would be behind this.
Fascism is great for any buisness that is already established. These people are already buying off the government, they’re not the little guys who could be taken over by a fascist government, they’re the ones pulling the strings.
The thing is, nobody ever said billionaires were smart. A lot of people conflate being wealthy with being intelligent, and that’s simply not the case.
The fatal mistake the billionaire donor class is making here is that they think Trump can be controlled if he does win. They aren’t worried about fascism because money is the real king of America and always has been.
And that line of thinking is solid until a fascist dictator who doesn’t want to give up their power or have it limited by anybody else decides that the wealthy are no longer their allies and has the secret police “deal with them”.
The elites thought Hitler was going to be their puppet, too.
The
billionairesrich buy both parties now.🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
He could energize the electorate by ending the genicide in Palestine, nationalizing the rail industry or Boeing, expanding the Supreme Court and investigating their corruption, or displaying unlimited support for clean energy and dismantling the fossil fuel industry. But I doubt any of that will happen.
It won’t happen because Biden doesn’t want to do any of those things. The DNC would rather risk the nation crumbling into fascism than take any of those steps to stop it.
I think we’ve been operating on the false assumption that the Democratic partys primary goal is to win. I would wager that as far as campaign contributions go, it’s likely better for them financially if they barely lose. I feel like the past few presidential races have been the American populace trying to force them to win anyways when they obviously didn’t want to.
A lot of their decisions make a lot more sense in that context.
Bernie Sanders would have eaten Trump alive in every debate, including this last one.
The only realistic person who would replace Biden is Kamala Harris, and I don’t think people would vote for her.
She’s not Trump. People would vote for her.
This seems to be the only criteria anyone can evaluate. But if that’s the case, why bother removing Biden? Let the man drool his way into a second term. Its all the same, so long as he isn’t Trump.
Those of us who pay attention and give a shit would vote for her, but Biden (or what’s left of him) already has our votes whether we like it or not.
But for the people who are disconnected or ignorant enough that they aren’t already itching to vote against Trump? They can be influenced by the dumbest things.
Hillary isn’t Trump. And people still hated her, more than they disliked Trump. And now, the DNC and the Biden campaign has the onerous and extremely difficult, if not impossible task of making people hate Trump more than they dislike Biden.
Guess we didn’t learn the RGB lesson? Oh well, repeating our mistakes it is!
Well get ‘em next time. Oh wait…
Ruth Gader Binsburg
What a disaster. I can’t remember the last time I saw a decent presidential debate, they all devolve into completely failing to answer the questions and just attacking the opponent. The only thing this new format did was prevent them from constantly talking over the opponent when their time was up.
What the hell happened to Biden? I mean, he’s old…but normally his speaking is far, far better despite his stutter. He could hardly get coherent rebuttals out half the time and had a hard time enunciating his policy goals.
Trump…nothing but a torrent of lies, [insert group] loves me, and “hurr durr you’re stupid, Biden.” But he was able to spew his word salad clearly.
They should have had fact-checkers, but the problem is that trump told so many lies so fast that 75% of the debate would have been the moderators having to correct trump’s bs.
This was embarrassing, to put it mildly. Terrifying to see trump look better than Biden - if you ignore what was actually said.
If you are upset with Bidens chances, Bidens genocidal foreign policy, bidens too little too late climate policy or bidens xenophobic foreign policy:
Consider voting for a third party that actually has a platform and politics that aligns with your own.
Now that it’s clear the democrats won’t win. Now that it’s clear the only people throwing their votes away are the ones who carefully, tactically, thoughtfully attach their support to the democrats. Now that it’s clear a new American political formation has to emerge.
Take this opportunity to record your needs in the only way that cannot be ignored, glossed over, deepfaked or otherwise denied.
Voting won’t be enough, but it’s the start to a new alignment within the power structure we have. Be kind and understanding towards your neighbors.
Classic bloodfart.
If you got a messed up Linux I’ll help you with it.
Doesn’t Biden have a cold?
Immune systems of 80 year old men are notoriously not great.
I dont get why people attack Biden for having a stutter. He stutters. We know. He always did, its why he does these breaks when speaking. Everything else is warranted though. He is way too old and slow. Still much better than the other old and slow dude.
Bruh he sounded ancient. I actually found it challenging to follow what he was saying.
he wasn’t so bad in 2020. he just aged a lot
