- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars@lemmy.world
- fuck_cars@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- fuckcars@lemmy.world
- fuck_cars@lemmy.ml
Summary
New York City has become the first U.S. city to implement a congestion charge, with car drivers paying up to $9 daily to enter areas south of Central Park.
The scheme aims to reduce traffic and fund public transport but has faced opposition, including from Donald Trump, who has vowed to overturn it.
Fees vary by vehicle type, with trucks and buses paying higher rates.
Despite legal challenges, the initiative moves forward as New York remains the world’s most congested urban area, with peak traffic speeds averaging just 11 mph.
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This is great. People complaining on social media aren’t New Yorkers. We have the best mass transit in the nation. Fuck cars. What we want are more bike and footpaths and less time at the crosswalk.
Best in the nation does not mean it is good. A great deal of NYC is not sufficiently covered
The fee is only for downtown Manhattan. Literally every subway line in Manhattan runs through downtown.
But not all parts of nyc are covered by a subway (outer queens, parts of eastern brooklyn, most of staten island [arguably all of it]). NJ isnt covered at all except for PATH, which is limited. If you live in nyc and work in new jersey, this is a new tax (either in time or money). If you live in parts of nyc that are a two fare zone, this is a new burden as well.
All subway upgrades this century so far have been centered in new stations in manhattan, which is already densely covered; train lines need to be added and extended to all parts of the city that dont have coverage whatsoever.
I agree it’s great but NYers are definitely complaining
Sure. This sucks for hedge fund managers from Scarsdale who can afford to pay to get into the financial district.
The rest of us take the subway, bus, or Metro North.
This is great work by the city leadership. It’s taken decades to get this system in place and the city sorely needs it.
Congestion charges work. It’s not a new thing nor an untried approach to mitigating extreme congestion from unfettered use of the city streets.
The weird part about all of this, to me anyway, is that tools and congestion charges are very much an economic and Libertarian style solution, but strangely conservatives often fight them tooth and nail. Isn’t their whole schtick that the market driven solutions are best? The city owns the streets. The use of the streets are in high demand. So, the city puts a price on a resource. That’s just econ basics.
Just a slight correction to your post - it isn’t NYC leadership per se. The final call is made by the NY State governor as the MTA is regulated on the state level.
I lean towards libertarianism and I oppose congestion pricing because I think all the claimed benefits are just marketing and it’s simply a new tax. If it does improve conditions in Manhattan significantly, I’ll admit I was wrong.
I lean towards libertarianism and I oppose congestion pricing because I think all the claimed benefits are just marketing and it’s simply a new tax. If it does improve conditions in Manhattan significantly, I’ll admit I was wrong.
We don’t have to guess what the future holds. London has had congestion pricing for about 22 years now. Its been largely successful.
Your article makes congestion pricing in London seem like a failure, and I would call getting those same results in New York a failure.
Your article makes congestion pricing in London seem like a failure, and I would call getting those same results in New York a failure.
You might need to work on your reading comprehension.
It did what it was intended for decades, and recently the original symptom is present again. What you also apparently missed is the net total of people able to enter London has increased since then except they are largely served by 3x in pubic buses as well as 137% increase in bicycle use. So many many more people are being served in London today than they were back then, and the worst of the problem is only what it was about 22 years ago. That is an amazing success. Further, we have London to look at for an archetype for modifications to a plan for New York to possibly make it even better/longer lasting in New York than 20+ years. Even if we can’t, 20+ years for a fix for a problem of this scale is an amazing success.
Your statement alone looks comically bad. I paraphrase your response as: “We have a problem today in Manhattan which has a solution in the form of congestion pricing, but that solution will potentially need to be adjusted in 20 years time. So the best option is to NOT use the solution that will buy us two decades of a fix.”
Yeah, to be honest, that’s a crappy article from CBS. London’s Low Emission Zone is a huge success in terms of air quality and active transportation. The city has continued to pour the revenues generated from the zone fees into its public transit system, so the iconic double-decker busses run frequently all day, and they have continued to open new train lines like the Elizabeth Line. New York has never managed that level of investment, and without the income and incentives congestion pricing creates, it won’t be able to. If anything, London still prices the LEZ too low, just like NYC has priced it too low at $9, rather than the $15 was supposed to be before Gov. Hochul’s cowardice.
There is one downside that I don’t think people consider enough when discussing congestion pricing:
Trucks will now find alternate routes that will hurt poorer neighborhoods.
Example: In order to go between New Jersey and Long Island, some trucks traditionally take routes through Manhattan as it is geographically faster to go crosstown than to detour north or south.
In order to drive from New Jersey to Long Island, to avoid the new congestion pricing trucks will most likely take the George Washington Bridge, drive through the South Bronx, and come down into Queens via the Throggs Neck, Whitestone, or RFK Bridges.
The South Bronx is about to absorb a LOT more of that traffic. Anyone taking the Major Deegan or Bruckner during rush hour knows it’s already beyond fucked with traffic.
Now, the traditionally poorer residents of the South Bronx are about to experience more air pollution, more noise, more road repairs, and majorly slower travel time anywhere.
Congestion pricing doesn’t remove the traffic, it just re-routes it into poorer neighborhoods.
(NOTE: I am a NYC car owner and still for congestion pricing. NYC should be way more pedestrian and bike friendly and while this program has downsides, it is a step in the right direction.)
Counter point. If the congestion pricing extended all the way through The Bronx, Queens, and The Mt. Vernon or Mt. Hebron (I honestly forgot which one is just north of The Bronx, and which one is upstate. Didn’t live there for very long.) area, this wouldn’t be an issue for any of the boroughs.
Definitely agree. It needs to be implemented in a way that won’t punish the adjacent communities unfairly.
Unfortunately, I live in SD, CA. You’ll have to organize to get this common sense legislation passed through all of The Boroughs
There are a few community organizations that are bringing attention to it. Everyone is waiting to see if the reality matches the predictions. It just went into effect today.
I will never understand why someone would rather drive into nyc vs a bus or train. The morning rush hour drive through the tunnel is one of the most insane things to waste your time doing.
I’ve met people who said they enjoy traffic because it’s time they get to be alone and in silence/away from their kids. I’ve also met people who have a superiority complex and look down on us common folk who take public transit.
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Some people don’t have permanent job sites, some people have to bring with them heavy equipment, some work odd hours. Public transportation is great if you have a 9-5 desk job.
That small niche of people can simply pay the toll to drive into NYC
That just ends up being a tax on blue collars and shift workers.
Sit in traffic and then pay money to park their car. I suspect those who drive into the city won’t change their habits. Another $50 an week isn’t a big deal for them.
I don’t do it a lot but there are times when I just cannot take public transit - like when I need to bring packages to my relatives. Or like this week when I need to bring my cat to the animal hospital in Manhattan. It’s very difficult to bring my cat to her appointment by public transit or Uber/Lyft/Taxi.
My rare driving into the zone is negligible but every car on the road contributes to the traffic.
It’s not a black and white issue https://www.nyctransitforums.com/topic/31326-which-outer-borough-has-the-best-coverage/
How many are driving into, or driving tbrough? To get from long island to nj, one needs to either go all the wya to the gwb (already worst traffic in the entire nation), go through staten island (two tolls, one of them being > $20), or go theough residential streets in manhattan to get from the bridges to the tunnels. Cross town highway options are non existant. Its a geographic, and poor planning issue.
A lot of nyc is a two plus fare zone.
I would not want to drive in New York.
Kansas City is nowhere near as dense as NYC, but I still get frustrated driving downtown around there, especially if there’s construction.
If you live in an RV or truck, you’re screwed. But then if you drive a huge truck to deliver stuff, your company benefits more and destroys more than my driving my 1980 civic.
Counter point. If the congestion pricing extended all the way through The Bronx, Queens, and The Mt. Vernon or Mt. Hebron area, this wouldn’t be an issue for any of the boroughs.Replied to the wrong comment.
I wonder how this will affect elections. I figure Governor Hochul “indefinitely” paused the program last summer to avoid hurting Democrats in the 2024 election. The next mayoral election in NYC is in November of this year and the next election of the governor is in November 2026. Right now both the mayor and the governor are not popular and congestion pricing has a lot of opponents. Maybe people will get used to it before the elections, which is what Hochul is betting on, but there will almost certainly be a new mayor (for reasons unrelated to congestion pricing) and Hochul’s chances of being reelected aren’t great either.
With all that and opposition from Trump, I think there’s a good chance that congestion pricing won’t last very long. (I can’t say I would be sad.) The congestion pricing hardware cost over $500 million to build, and the expected income from the toll would take over a year to cover that. The MTA’s budget will be in big trouble if congestion pricing ends up not even paying for itself.
