• Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      And large parts of .ml, which is the bridge for hexbear to all the instances which defederated with them.

      It really does feel like hexbear users are probably high fiving each other over their cubicle walls in Vladivostok. The admin openly states their goal is information warfare.

    • Match!!@pawb.social
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      5 months ago

      It’s super neat being in a different federation group than other posters, I have no idea what the bad places are like

      • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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        5 months ago

        World and Hexbear are both liberal cesspits. One is full of centrists who think they’re leftists, and one is full of conservatives who think they’re communists.

            • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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              5 months ago

              This just pretends democratic socialism doesn’t exist. Like there’s nothing between liberal and ML communist.

              So, you are saying that if someone wants the same end goal as you, but has a differing opinion on how we accomplish that, you insult them. I’m sure you change a lot of minds and make a lot of friends with your method.

              • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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                5 months ago

                There is nothing between liberal and ML “communist”. They’re the same. Democratic socialism is to the left of both of those, and anarchist ideologies such as anarcho-communism, syndicalism, and mutualism are to the left of that. See, demsocs may not be the biggest fans of Marx, but they adhere far more closely to his ideas than Stalinists do.

                • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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                  5 months ago

                  I see now. Intriguing take you have. It’s different than the way everybody else classifies things, but I guess I can see where you are coming from. In my opinion, ML theory is pretty left leaning when it comes to economics and the end goal of it, but the authoritarian plan for transitioning to it does not align with most other leftist virtues and ideas.

          • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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            5 months ago

            They don’t want to have a communist revolution. They want to have a socialist revolution and then wait for the state to implement communism on its own. A true communist would act to bring about communism.

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              Have you by any chance read The Communist Manifesto or Critique of the Gotha Programme? Both are very short reads, and give some level of idea of what Marx is directly advocating for, as opposed to his general critique of Capitalism or his philosophical work on Dialectical Materialism. Marx was no Anarchist, he advocated for building Communism over time. This didn’t mean “waiting for the state to one day turn on the Communism switch,” that ignores his entire philosophy of Historical Materialism, whereby societal contradictions are worked out over time, as nothing is inherently static and everything is in motion.

              None of this requires any of Lenin’s work to be read at all.

              If you’re saying that a “True Communist” would somehow magically create Communism directly via revolution and not over time, then Marx was not a “True Communist.” At this point, you’re deeply silly, and simply redefining Anarchism as “True Communism” to win a game of semantics and label all non-Anarchists as conservatives.

              Edit: oh, in another post you directly out yourself as a Soulist, and thus you disagree with Marx not only on his advocacy for Communism, but also his philosophy of Dialectical Materialism. At this point, you’re content to deny science and Materialism for the sake of pushing forward the idea that ideas create reality, which is deeply unserious.

              • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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                5 months ago

                Dialectical materialism is a misnomer. I’ll give you an example. Suppose Alice’s boss pays her one dollar an hour, while Bob’s boss pays him a thousand dollars an hour. A dollar is not a material object. It’s a social construct. These quantities are, material, simply numbers in a bank account. Less than that, because numbers are social constructs too. Materially, these are magnetised bits on a hard drive. There is no material sense in which Bob earns more than Alice. The fact that Bob earns a thousand times as much is purely social, not material. Yet, as a result of the exchange of social constructs, Alice lives in a slum and cannot afford medical care for the tumor that will kill her in a year’s time, and she is driven by necessity towards revolution. While Bob lives a life of privilege in a mcmansion with three healthy kids from three different ex-wives, and Bob is incentivised to maintain the status quo and oppose revolution.

                If the dialectical philosophy of marxists were aptly named, it would be called dialectical determinism. Alice and Bob’s lives are governed by cause and effect, not by materials. They are governed by the cause and effect of social constructs. We can say that materially, Bob is more wealthy because he has a mansion, but why does he have a mansion when Alice does not? Because of a social construct. Not a material. It is wrong to say Alice’s desire for revolution is driven by materials. It is in fact driven by cause and effect, which is much more universal than mere matter.

                Being a soulist does not make me the enemy of dialectical determinists, which is to say Marxists. But it does make me the enemy of realists, who misunderstand the lessons to be learned from Marx’s writing and fixate upon the physical to the exclusion of truth.

                • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                  5 months ago

                  Oh, it appears I was wrong. You reject all of Marxism, including his critique of Capitalism via rejection of the Labor Theory of Value. Money is a representation of Exchange-Value, it doesn’t simply exist in our minds. Recognizing income differences is not an anti-Materialist take, pretending these happen for no reason is a rejection of attempting to understand Capitalism itself, and reality.

                  This is Idealism at its peak, and is a complete misunderstanding of what Materialists mean when referencing Social Relations. If you genuinely want to understand Dialectical Materialism, please read Elementary Principles of Philosophy by Politzer. Materialists understand social relations.

                  Alice’s drive towards revolution is due to her material conditions, which are caused by the material reality of Capitalism.

                  You are an enemy of Marxism and Marxists because you reject all 3 pillars of Marxism: Critique of Capitalism via the Labor Theory of Value, advocacy for Socialism as a way to build towards Communism, and Dialectical and Historical Materialism. Pretending to be the “One True Communist” while completely disavowing history’s most important Communist in every major manner is just anticommunism.

                  • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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                    5 months ago

                    Love the argument. “No u”. Great job telling me my own beliefs incorrectly. With skills like that, you could be a politician in the US.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          5 months ago

          True leftism is when you reject reality, and anyone that doesn’t subscribe to your extremely niche, extremely online ideology is either a conservative or a centrist. Everyone who disagrees with you, whether on the basis of theory or history or material conditions or lived experience, is just too morally impure to achieve the same level of leftism as you, you are the One True Leftist, and you’re not going to let little things like what things exist or are possible get in the way of that.

          • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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            5 months ago

            Wow, a fellow soulist. You’re being a bit too evangelical, though. We actually have a discord server with over 70 members! https://discord.gg/nfbVVyXK. And if you don’t like that one, there are two newer servers run by different mod teams. https://discord.com/invite/w7tvaR6s. https://discord.gg/5THVKZrk. Also, many soulists come from diverse walks of life and have more lived experience of realist oppression than nearly anyone. For example, I have schizotypal personality disorder, so my experience of reality is neurodivergent to begin with. There are many otherkin and plural systems within the community. Even material conditions, which are fake and socially constructed, can radicalise someone towards soulism. Over half of soulists are transgender. Obviously, soulism is more attractive to any trans person than realism, because it offers faster and more complete transition than any realist ideology.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              I am not a soulist. In fact, I consider it to be an extremely dangerous ideology. If you’re successful in undermining consensus reality, we’re going to have dragons and vampires running around terrorizing people. The moment reality becomes mutable enough for someone to turn themselves into something with mind control powers, like a mind flayer, we’re all fucked.

              I am trans and neurodivergent, and I take offense at this statement:

              Obviously, soulism is more attractive to any trans person than realism, because it offers faster and more complete transition than any realist ideology.

              Trans identities are not a rejection of reality. I don’t find your ideology appealing in the slightest. I believe in objective science, and the science is 100% on the side of trans people.

          • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            USA

            Liberal in the US means progressive. It’s a term referring to social issues, not economic ones.

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              Liberal in the USA means Liberal economically, it’s just that economic Liberalism is more progressive than the alternstive, far-right populism.

                • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                  5 months ago

                  Yes it does. The Liberals in the US support Liberalism. Calling someone a Liberal means they support Liberalism in the US.

                  • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    You are a liar and you keep spreading this bullshit. Both sides in the US support economic liberalism. The US exclusively uses the term “liberal” to refer to social issues.

                    You can argue about whether that’s a good definition or not, but you CANNOT argue about whether that’s actually how it’s used in the US, both in everyday usage and political journalism.

                    You are spreading this shit because you like to intentionally blur the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              Overton Window, maybe, but that’s not a particularly useful categorization. Parties represent relatively fixed views, not directions.

              • KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                In the US it’s a spectrum combining party policy and Overton Window. As you move left, you go deeper and deeper into increasingly extreme thoughts on policy regarding what we consider classic liberal topics such as social justice, corporate power, various societal and economic reforms, etc till it hits an extreme that’s considered radical to the average, the same goes for the right and classic conservative views.

                Hugging the middle/mixed gray zone are the Centrist.

                • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                  5 months ago

                  I think you’re a bit confused on terms.

                  Social Justice isn’t really a “Liberal” topic. It’s a topic many US Liberals generally are progressive on, but that doesn’t make it “Liberal.” Liberalism is also not about reforming the economy but maintaining “healthy” Capitalism.

                  Liberal views are therefore views in line with Liberalism itself, and Liberal Parties like the DNC represent Liberalism and movements towards Liberalism, not movements towards the left.

                  Social Democracy, ie what Scandinavian Countries have, would be centrist.

            • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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              5 months ago

              US liberals and US conservatives both share the core ideals of Liberalism, including the right to private property

              They differ only in where they think individual liberty ends.

          • Tar_Alcaran@sh.itjust.works
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            5 months ago

            The world of a hundred years ago. Where I live, the liberal parties mostly want to create more freedom for companies to fuck people over.

    • Marighost@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      I’m convinced those people have to be elaborate trolls. Like the flat earthers.

      • Oisteink@feddit.nl
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        5 months ago

        nah - they are very real. Maybe sock puppets but real. I imagine them like rich 15 year old kids beeing “rad and cool”

        • RampageDon@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Idk ozma was pushing a super hard the left should protest vote or not vote before getting called out in every thread. They have been slowly evolving the shill to be less and less obvious. Even started posting memes and other content to try and get the political agenda across without posting negative articles. Now the message isnt the very obvous up front don’t vote, but they are just “critical of Biden,” yet have nothing to say about anyone else. Doesn’t seem like an edgy kid to me.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Is Biden complicit in the Genocide of Palestinians?

            No everyone pointing this out is a Russian bot.

            This thread is top tier Blue MAGA.

            • RampageDon@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Weird how I didn’t say either of those things. Also pretty hypocritical to not like what I said, put words in my mouth, and then call me Blue MAGA. Really helps your point.

              • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Now the message isnt the very obvous up front don’t vote, but they are just “critical of Biden,”

                What were you trying to dogwhistle?

                • RampageDon@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  Love how you quickly diverted from the hypocrisy of putting words in my mouth and then do the exact thing you seem to be crying about of labeling me Blue MAGA because I said something you didn’t like. In the US we have a FPTP voting system. We do not have a luxury of choosing the best candidate, but the lesser of 2 evils. So pretending that protesting voting or not voting is standing for a cause is a joke and disingenuous. All it does is help the opposition party. You can be critical all you want but don’t pretend to be liberal when you know a protest vote or not vote helps the other party. The message was very clear they didn’t want people to vote. Now they are trying to be more subtle about it. But sure lets be a 1 issue voter and pretend a Trump presidency would be better for the social issues everyone crying Blue MAGA seems to care so much about.

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    Blue MAGA calling all criticism of Biden Russian support and then claiming other people are putting words in their mouth lmao

            • barsquid@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              There are still clowns who think that if they say “Blue MAGA” enough people will believe it’s real? Checks the username, oh, of course, it’s one of the regulars lol.

          • return2ozma@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Hey, I’m here! I said vote for whoever you want or don’t vote, that’s democracy.

            I’ve said over and over I’m a gay guy living in the Los Angeles area and far left. I keep sounding the alarm Biden will lose to Trump but nobody wants to listen to me.

            And then, the debate tonight everyone is surprised Pikachu face now.

      • punkfungus@sh.itjust.works
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        5 months ago

        Last I checked hexbear had something like 70% more total comments than lemmy.world despite only having a tiny fraction of the users. Sounds like bots to me

        • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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          5 months ago

          Plus whenever somebody talks ill about the CCP over there they get barraged by copypasta responses. Their posts mirror popular posts on other servers, and generally lack any form of real discussion. The place looks like the bottiest of all instances and nothing can change my mind.

        • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          5 months ago

          Hexbear has had an established and more active community for a longer time than Lemmy.world. You can visit Hexbear yourself and check, it’s not illegal or anything.

          Over time Lemmy.world may overtake Hexbear, but not for a while.

          • 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖈𝖞 𝕿𝖚𝖓𝖆@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            I have imagined that ever since the Reddit emigration hype ended and things settled down a bit here that the vast majority of world and shit users are mostly lurkers and not terribly vocal, as is the case on a lot of other platforms.

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              Yep, I agree, same goes for Lemm.ee and other “generalist” instances. Those attracted the most people from Reddit as they required the least knowledge before-hand of Lemmy and aimed at replicating Reddit in some ways.

              More niche communities tend to be more active per user if they are well established, with Hexbear as a prime example.

            • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Well Hexbear also had a policy of not showing down votes to encourage users to respond if they disagree instead of just down voting and moving on.

              • MindTraveller@lemmy.ca
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                5 months ago

                That’s very ironic given that they ban anyone further left than “Capitalist Russia is the best country in the world! Let’s support their invasion of Ukraine for no reason! Ughur genocide fake by the way! Is not so bad that Stalin banned being gay.”

      • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        A lot of troll accounts are semi-automated. They run a script that detects certain keywords, and posts premade replies to them (nowadays said premade replies are being finetuned with generative AI to look less uniform), also a human is watching over them to ensure both correct operation and to overtake in case of emergency.

        Source: My father’s ex-girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend was (is) a paid online troll for Fidesz. They also had Discord (later Matrix if I recall) servers for organizing mass reports, downvotes, angry/haha react campaigns, often they also did some “private doxxing”.