Showing up to primaries and reforming the party seems infinitely easier in a FPTP system. The parties are pretty much part of the electoral infrastructure at this point, you simply can’t “go around” them. Their form can absolutely change, as can leadership, but it will take literal generations to supplant them.
On the other hand, if the people that usually stay home or preach that “the process is useless” showed up to primaries and threw more of the old guard on their asses we could actually have a shot at getting a party to represent working class people. It’s the exact same work, there’s just less of it because you already have a base of voters.
People can complain about the DNC all they want, but until they show up they’re getting exactly what they’ve asked for. We have the power to clean house.
Blah blah blah. Moving forward our elections will be more akin to Russias. The fact that you want to wait and see is exactly how bad they got you. They pulled your pants down and pulled your underwear around your head and your looking for the light switch.
“Of course I’m not going to do any actual work to try and fix the problem, I just want to tell everyone they can’t fix the problem and have no agency! See how left I am?!”
It’s a sunk cost. The last 4 years every opportunity I would talk about how shit biden was. No one would have it. I even so much as got banned from reddit. Now here we are. We can’t depend on the DNC to solve it. If you want to fix the problem you have to cut the DNC out. They offer nothing but a swooning gaze into 1990s politics.
I don’t care how much you protest. The faster you get to where I’m at the better the shot we have at fixing it. Until then the DNC will suck up all your energy and turn it into a GOP win.
Do you have a ready-built national organization that can be successfully co-opted to supplant the DNC i dont know about?
DNC isnt just a sunk cost, its an established civic investment. Unless you think the whole system is going to collapse overnight, a takeover of an existing party is the quickest way to get real change. And if the DNC is rotten and needs to go, we can best do that from the inside.
Every “third party” either merges into a major party or devolves into a vanity party, because the only positions that matter electorally in a winner-take-all system are “i suooort the current person” or “i want them out of office.”
I think destroying from the inside is fraught with problems. If you go after the DNC it will be a fight to get state parties to fall in line. What needs to happen is a tea party esque movement to challenge the entrenched state parties. If you can beat the state party’s on the ground you can supplant them and set the agenda. Yes you can merge the parties when you want to cash out but that’s way cart before horse discussion.
Wow, what a well-reasoned argument. Actively participating in the obviously fucked-up democratic process in an effort to unfuck it is the opposite of “wait and see.” “Wait and see” is your end result.
Ok, but any discussion I may have with you won’t be productive because your belief is US government will continue to operate, more or less, as it always has. If you were mildly informed you might not have that same belief. At the very least you should be arguing that the GOP is not capable of shifting the government from its current iteration to a right wing run authoritarian regime. Not this, democrats are the only alternative bullshit.
Thank you for trying to tell me my beliefs, unfortunately I still have no fucking clue what you’re trying to say, what your position is, or what you think my position is. Maybe try writing it in your original language and translating it.
Showing up to primaries and reforming the party seems infinitely easier in a FPTP system. The parties are pretty much part of the electoral infrastructure at this point, you simply can’t “go around” them. Their form can absolutely change, as can leadership, but it will take literal generations to supplant them.
On the other hand, if the people that usually stay home or preach that “the process is useless” showed up to primaries and threw more of the old guard on their asses we could actually have a shot at getting a party to represent working class people. It’s the exact same work, there’s just less of it because you already have a base of voters.
People can complain about the DNC all they want, but until they show up they’re getting exactly what they’ve asked for. We have the power to clean house.
Blah blah blah. Moving forward our elections will be more akin to Russias. The fact that you want to wait and see is exactly how bad they got you. They pulled your pants down and pulled your underwear around your head and your looking for the light switch.
“Of course I’m not going to do any actual work to try and fix the problem, I just want to tell everyone they can’t fix the problem and have no agency! See how left I am?!”
It’s a sunk cost. The last 4 years every opportunity I would talk about how shit biden was. No one would have it. I even so much as got banned from reddit. Now here we are. We can’t depend on the DNC to solve it. If you want to fix the problem you have to cut the DNC out. They offer nothing but a swooning gaze into 1990s politics.
I don’t care how much you protest. The faster you get to where I’m at the better the shot we have at fixing it. Until then the DNC will suck up all your energy and turn it into a GOP win.
Do you show uo at your local DNC meetings? Did you endorse, donate, primary, or run for anything?
If not, PLEASE DO. The smart dems are reeling, and the ones who arent deserve to be primaried.
What don’t you get about sunk cost? People staying invested in the DNC will delay any meaningful change.
What’s your alternative?
Do you have a ready-built national organization that can be successfully co-opted to supplant the DNC i dont know about?
DNC isnt just a sunk cost, its an established civic investment. Unless you think the whole system is going to collapse overnight, a takeover of an existing party is the quickest way to get real change. And if the DNC is rotten and needs to go, we can best do that from the inside.
Every “third party” either merges into a major party or devolves into a vanity party, because the only positions that matter electorally in a winner-take-all system are “i suooort the current person” or “i want them out of office.”
I think destroying from the inside is fraught with problems. If you go after the DNC it will be a fight to get state parties to fall in line. What needs to happen is a tea party esque movement to challenge the entrenched state parties. If you can beat the state party’s on the ground you can supplant them and set the agenda. Yes you can merge the parties when you want to cash out but that’s way cart before horse discussion.
Wow, what a well-reasoned argument. Actively participating in the obviously fucked-up democratic process in an effort to unfuck it is the opposite of “wait and see.” “Wait and see” is your end result.
Dude, you’re flailing. You say a bunch of words by they aren’t going to mean anything.
Lololol, the irony of this sentence would be hilarious if it wasn’t indicative of the very avoidable failures of our society.
… show me post dripping with hubris.
Yeah, really not sure what that’s supposed to mean either. Clear communication is key in having a productive discussion, I highly recommend it.
Ok, but any discussion I may have with you won’t be productive because your belief is US government will continue to operate, more or less, as it always has. If you were mildly informed you might not have that same belief. At the very least you should be arguing that the GOP is not capable of shifting the government from its current iteration to a right wing run authoritarian regime. Not this, democrats are the only alternative bullshit.
Thank you for trying to tell me my beliefs, unfortunately I still have no fucking clue what you’re trying to say, what your position is, or what you think my position is. Maybe try writing it in your original language and translating it.