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I’m over pointing fingers and playing holy than thou.
The people who plan to build a Hungarian-style autocratic government are in power now, and they’re hoping the left is exhausted and tired of fighting this shit for a decade.
This shit is going to be dangerous, and we’re going to have to motivate people to push back hard than even. Pointing fingers just divides us and makes us even weaker.
That’s a bummer because progressives couldn’t be bothered to stop an erasure of minorities and lgbt alongside a subjugation of women.
Quite simply, either you align with them or you can get fucked.
At least that’s how it’s currently playing out.
Removed by mod
“But mom! I got a gun for self defense, how was i supposed to know that you’d be declared property even though they were screaming it at the top of their lungs?”
Its awesome that my post got removed because they can’t admit that they were DEAD WRONG TO HAVE BEEN CENSORING THOSE CALLING FOR ARMING UP FOR SELF-DEFENSE.
FUCK YOU, MODS
Arming for self defense wont matter when the women in your life aren’t legally allowed to have a bank account.
It will be death by a thousand cuts, but at least you’ll have your guns?
Whatcha gonna do about it? And what does “at least you’ll have your guns” mean? Explain.
It means your guns won’t do shit when the law decides your mom is declared property.
The guns won’t change anything because the people making those laws not only have guns but also have the police, the legislative, the judiciary, the military and the executive branch.
Good luck fighting an apc full of military-decked police officers with your ar 15.
Democrats continuing to blame everyone but themselves, as usual.
The Democrats could have run a turd as a candidate with the slogan “it’ll be a shit show” and I’d still have voted for them with no regrets, because I understand that fascism is an existential threat. If the Democrats are to blame in any way, it’s because they didn’t try to get people to understand that OH WAIT THEY DID.
Should the Democrats have run a better candidate and a better campaign? Obviously yes. Is it their fault that voters were willing to let a fascist win? Not even a little.
That democrats weren’t even willing to budge on their support for genocide means that they don’t actually mind fascism. They can scream on and on about how dangerous trump is, but when they’re kissing dick cheney’s ass and trying to court other such “moderate” fascists, then they’re just full of shit. So yes, it is largely the fault of democrats, who are the only other viable party in the country, for not fighting fascism. They set themselves up as the only solution and then failed to get the votes. Reminder that this is the same party boosting the campaigns of far-right candidates just so they can point at how crazy their opponents are. All they’re accomplishing is helping out the fascist cause, which again, democrats don’t seem to mind based on their actions.
They didn’t “set themselves up as the only solution.” We have First Past the Post voting, that’s just how it works.
I’ve reached across the aisle to vote for a conservative for 3 elections now against Trump. It would be nice if centrists and conservatives did the same.
If anything non-voter related is to blame, it’s the global economy which has shifted every single developed country away from the party in charge. But that doesn’t excuse the non-voters.
Now let’s get Ukraine everything we possibly can and put as much pressure on Israel as possible.
Prepare to lose again 2028 with this attitude.
I’m with you that fascism is alive and well in the states, no doubt.
But you have to see that years of “fascist” accusations from anyone even slightly left has watered down any impact that language might have had. Most people who are and have been on the receiving end of that accusation just roll their eyes when they hear the word - regardless if it’s true or not. It comes off to them as a “blue hair” reee-ing.
Just letting you know most people don’t take it with the same gravity any more. To most people “real” fascism was a 1940’s thing, and fascism now is just an insult throw around by keyboard warriors and “SJWs” - whom they find annoying and pathetic.
The term, however appropriate, doesn’t affect people’s political decisions as much as you would think.
R’s have learned to change their boogiemen occasionally while keeping them substantially similar. Is DEI or CRT substantially different then “Political correctness gone wild”? Not even a little. But it feels new.
You’re right, that is a thing they do.
I see my original comment got at least one down vote because we’re still in the “denial” phase. It’s the truth though: most people, however wrong they may be, view the fascist label as just another flippantly-tossed insult not to be taken seriously.
You would, but millions of Americans wouldn’t. Those Americans act out of self-interest, and the economy was the biggest pain point with most voters this past election.
Instead of catering to the middle class, what Dems’ base has been historically, Harris campaigned to business owners with tax incentives/breaks.
Democrats failed. Hell, Harris could have even lied just as Obama did to get Democrats and moderates to believe that she represents them. But she didn’t!
You’re defending the people who embraced the Cheneys and told Bernie and Tlaib to get fucked. Cutting off money and weapons to Israel- who represent only 2.4% of the US population- to end a genocide was the easiest possible win imaginable.
If by “defending” you mean “placing blame where it belongs” then yeah.
Like, if a serial killer has killed ten people then gets charged with killing an eleventh, but he didn’t, then I’d “defend” him too because the person who actually did the crime is still out there and should be held accountable.
You’re making it out as if I’m trying to say the serial killer didn’t murder anybody. That’s not what I’m saying.
The Democrats fucked up, big time. But it’s the electorate who let a fascist win.
Who said Lefts didn’t vote for Harris?
Are you manufacturing this? Where are the exit polls?
Might a better reason for why Fascism won with this election be that Democrats, including Biden, Harris, the DNC, and the consulting class, failed to campaign to their own base, and even more than their base since most Americans, Dems and Reps, approve of progressive policies?
Projection man
Biden got ~81m votes in 2020, Harris only got ~67m. >14m fewer people voted for her.
Trump also dropped by ~2m, only getting ~72m this time around vs. ~74m in 2020.
Trump didn’t win because of a giant right-wing national shift, he won because of voter apathy on the left.
There was certainly a right wing shift. The DNC did their very best (e.g. Cheney) to capture republican voters rather than represent the workers.
You need to seperate out the political machine from the populace.
The DNC did make a right-ward play to try and peel centrist/moderate voters who identify as Republicans but didn’t necessarily want to vote for Trump. They did this on the (now we know false) assumption that their base would turn out automagically.
But again, Trump won with fewer votes this time around than he lost in 2020 to Biden with. He didn’t gain standing, the only reason he was victorious was because those left of centre failed to show up to the polls. Voter apathy doesn’t denote a right-wing shift; it denotes a shit political platform.
Voters are still voting rather progressively on state-wide ballot measures, the people haven’t gotten more conservative - despite what the (elite-owned) media narrative would have you believe. Every datapoint and infographic regarding voter demographics is based on %s of voters, rather than absolute demographics.
I have to admit that I haven’t delved into the exit polls and analyzed which social groups migrated right or not.
But one thing that’s different about the 2024 election compared to 2020 is that COVID wasn’t happening to the same degree. There were a ton more mail-in ballots 2020 due to social distancing, which helped both parties as a bump in votes.
Why use 2020 as a data point though? Why not 2016? Why not 2012 and 2008? Might those elections be slightly different because a 1-in-100-year pandemic wasn’t happening?
If you compare those numbers, does the Dems’ numbers compare to those elections?
I want to say someone on Lemmy already posted the numbers recently in one of these posts. From what I recall, Dems’ votes returned close to pre-COVID levels albeit a degree lower, yet Reps’ votes were above pre-COVID levels. Why?
Might the explanation be the societal shift towards the right?
And how can you not see the national shift to the right in how the Democrats speak to rallies and voters? We are considerably more right-wing as a country than ever in the recent decades. This election was a Republican primary with how Kamala ran on pre-Trump conservative values and policies.
Maybe apathy exists on the Left because it is increasingly the case that Democrats don’t represent them anymore.
I used 2020 as a comparison for a few reasons;
- It was the most recent result prior to the 2024 election, so it will have the most comparable demographics.
- voting infrastructure from the COVID-era is still largely in place, allowing for more early and postal voting than pre-COVID. So earlier years are less comparable.
- presidential elections are just as much about voting against the worse candidate, if not more-so, than voting for a preferred one.
- both 2020 and 2024 could be seen as referendums on Trump’s policies, presidency and suitability for a second term.
Rather than looking at percentages, the individual counts are more important as they tell the underlying story.
The DNC’s GOTV campaign absolutely failed to motivate their base and undecided voters. Perhaps that was somewhat intentional, as a lot of the former GOP aligned ‘never-Trump’ campaign financiers have shifted to the Dems and have used their new-found influence to nudge the party’s platform rightward. The Cheney endorsements certainly didn’t do them any favours!
But looking at how even deep-red states have voted in support of abortion rights, shows that the general US populace is generally slowly drifting leftward - despite what the corporate-owned media narrative would have you believe.
I’ll agree with you on the 2020 voting laws carrying forward (although I haven’t looked into the state laws, especially the red ones to see if those have been repealed yet because that’s what tends to happen).
Also agreed on the DNC’s and Harris’ messaging. I also blame Biden because if we wanted to prepare to fight against Trump in the election where he was his most popular, the Dems would have ran an actual primary.
Definitely agreed too on the general sentiment of Americans supporting leftist policies. We see this with Bashear in Kentucky, and recently the middle wage and abortion policies in Missouri. Although you might be able to balance that by Florida’s outcome with their referendums as well as California.
Ultimately it comes down to messaging and optics. Democrats need to figure out a way to package progressive policy in a way that capture the imaginations and hopes of their base while at the same time not scaring those towards the center into believing those same policies are socialist or communist.
I’m not familiar with the California referendum in question, but Florida saw over 57% vote in favour of extending abortion rights.
The only reason it lost was because it required at least 60% to pass; instead Florida now gets to experience the tyranny of minority rule.
The left didn’t vote against fascism, but also the center didn’t. And the right, obviously.
They share the blame, certainly, especially in depressing left-leaning turnout, but I think it was largely ‘swing voter’ twats sitting it out.
Suppose we’ll find out when more detailed analysis of this utter fuck-up and handing the keys to one of the most powerful countries in the world to fascists is available.
Blaming the people instead of the wet rag they ran.
This may come as a surprise to you, but yes, in a democracy the people are to blame for who gets elected.
The Dems running a wet rag is a significant failing and they share the blame for fascism coming into power.
At the same time, that in no way excuses the thought process of any voter who sat by and said, “I don’t like the wet rag. Let’s go with fascism instead!”
Keep projecting this nonsense onto people you clearly do not understand and see if it gets better. Maybe 2028 will be different.
“Stop calling me out for choosing fascism over the wet rag.”
Maybe 2028 will be different.
HA,HA,HA,HA…~
“Too radical”
“Not radical enough”
“Trump Lite”
“Didn’t care about Trump voters”
“Another predicable establishment candidate”
“We didn’t know her”
“All she said was she not the other guy”
“Didn’t expose Trump enough”
“Joy bullshit! Where are the serious policies?”
“Elections are about feelings and she didn’t have appeal”
“Supports the Gaza genocide”
“Didn’t inspire pro-Israel voters”
“Failed border czar”
“Blue MAGA”
Everyone seems to think they know why Harris lost, and it’s always “didn’t do enough of what I like”. It’s boring and unhelpful.
The DNC would rather lose with a neoliberal than win with a progressive. If they want to get there shit together they have to win with the working class and ordinary people.
They can’t be elitist centrists. They’ll lose every election if they do. The future is now old man
If they go further left they lose every moderate or right leaning Democratic voter don’t they? Why would you want your voter base to get smaller
To attract people who took one look at this steaming pile of economic dystopia, the parties that both support it, and walked away.
I’m not even talking about the loud ones that claimed to walk away but voted Harris out of conscience and harm reduction.
For someone that wants to live in society and not a bunch of rugged individuals at each other’s throats for oligarch scraps, it is very difficult to look at this cesspool and have hope or engage without feeling filthy and even more hopeless.
That could change if today’s neoliberals were supplanted by anti-corporatists messaging that it isn’t government’s job to get out of the market’s way, but to regulate and straightjacket the market economy into serving society as the lowly tool of society that an economy ought to be.
The people demanding there be winners and losers in an embarrassingly wealthy society ought to go live in the forest with nothing but a knife to see if they win or lose. A society supports one another.
So is it that leftists are too small a group to be worth making political concessions to, or are they a large enough group to have an effect on elections?
Why do Democrats feel entitled to the support of the left when they don’t offer anything to the left?
That’s the problem they’re both. They’re that kick you always need to keep the right wing nuts at bay. But this election the American far left became nuts too and lost their common sense. Anyways enjoy your king
I’m not really a fan of my king, the queen before him was far more likeable.
Pithy remarks aside, I don’t see how the far left can be blamed for Harris losing given the pretty sizable margin by which she lost. And why would leftists be motivated to vote for a party that not only doesn’t offer them anything in terms of policy, but actively courts so called ‘moderate’ Republicans?
I’m doing my part! I’m yelling at leftists on the internet!
There’s some non-zero number of voters who planned to vote for Biden, couldn’t find his name on the ballot, and subsequently filled in the only other name of a President they saw.
“Yeah, he did the job before, he’s got experience…”
I guess other things were more important.
Not having a genocide of PoC at home wasn’t one of them.
To all the infallible unblemished champions of the proletarian revolution who are shitting on “libs”:
According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics and Western Political Theory in the Face of the Future, this is the definition of liberalism:
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law.
In your own words, what do you think “lib” means? And if you’re going with my cited textbook definition, what’s so offensive to you about the tenets that are listed?
Either words’ definitions matter or they don’t, and if they don’t, then none of what you say matters.
Generally it is used as a derogatory remark towards the flank of capitalist that often styles themselves ‘leftist’.
In a very reductive sense it means if you’re offended by being called it, then it means you.
In a very reductive sense it means if you’re offended by being called it, then it means you.
Wannabe pejoratives usually are overly reductive.
I just think the tankies and MAGA types don’t even know what it really means. Republicanism and Marxism are historically both liberal political philosophies that find their roots in the enlightenment.
I think they want to say “corporatist neoliberal”, but it’s too many syllables or requires too much thought. “Lib” makes for a nicer stone to throw.
Probably not the type of person you are directing the question towards, however, to me “Liberal” when used as a genuine marker of someone’s political philosophy is effectively someone who believes in the status quo, but with slightly more protections for individuals, or relatively minor changes to existing political processes. They refuse to believe that other market or political system options are worthy of attempting or simply do not consider them feasible.
As to the second part,
Either words’ definitions matter or they don’t, and if they don’t, then none of what you say matters.
Unfortunately, definitions change over time or simply aren’t accurate, homosexual used to inaccurately be defined as “sexual orientation disturbance” for example. That definition of liberal also covers things like the ““Classical Liberalism”” movement as liberal, they believe in COMPLETE market deregulation and capitalist “anarchy”, their version of “rights of the individual” is the rights of an individual to do whatever they want to when they have the money to do so, without allowing any government to intervene in any way. This can (and frequently does) include using money to discriminate against other people, that’s something worth fighting against.
Also FWIW, “Neoliberal” is defined by Oxford Languages as “favoring policies that promote free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.”, sometimes when people refer to “libs” they mean neoliberals, and yeah, deregulation and free-market capitalism has been tried, it sucks and deserves to be shat on.
- an anarchist
Codified capitalism, anarchism, republicanism, and socialism are liberal philosophies that find their roots historically in the enlightenment. “Lib” isn’t the insult that tankies and MAGAs think it is.
FWIW, I advocate for democratic market socialism.
Libs embraced the Cheneys and told Bernie and Tlaib et al to go fuck themselves.
LibsCorporatist DNC embraced the Cheneys and told Bernie and Tlaib et al to go fuck themselves.
Yes, I’m aware of the “paradox of intolerance”.
You’re doing great comrade; the revolution is one more snarky internet comment and molotov sippy-cup away.
Oh dont worry, I’m done with the “revolution”. That’s never ever ever gonna happen.
This is you, then.
So, you’re triggered enough by my pushback about people not knowing what “liberal” means enough to try to make me
insertNegativeEmotionHere?Now you’re just a fucking asshole. Fuck off.
I fucking hate shitlib dictionary lawyering.
Just say you’re gonna fucking ignore what’s happening.
dictionary lawyering
So words don’t matter to you, got it.
Just say you’re gonna fucking ignore what’s happening.
I voted blue up and down the ballot in every election possible in my adult life since 2000, despite the corporatist fellating DNC. I’ve demonstrated. I’ve donated. I’ve written to congressmen. I was in a union earlier in my career.
I’ve been called worse than “shitlib”. Try harder.
Here’s how the corporatist DNC read your vote:
THEY LOVE ME!! THEY REALLY REALLY LOVE ME!!
Should I not have voted?
Dunno but you should at least grasp why lots of people think none of that shit works and hasnt for decades
“That shit” is far better than the alternative.
Hey Micheal, corporate needs you to tell the difference between these two pictures.
Maybe the left didn’t vote because there was only right wing parties to vote from.
Extremely right wing - Republican
Slightly centre right - Democrats
The oligarchs’ vision for ‘choice’
Lmao lib shit tally:
Bullshit corporate media reference, check. Blaming the minority for the failure of the party, check Believing politics happens once every four years, check.
I did my part. I voted third party because BOTH PARTIES SUPPORT A FASCIST REGIME COMMITTING GENOCIDE WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS WHILE OUR OWN PEOPLE GO HOMELESS
Cry about it libs! I bet going further right and further ignoring your base will win in 2028! Might as well run Liz Cheney while you’re at it!
Yes that is the not voting against fascism the meme is talking about. You can label not doing your part as doing your part but it’s still not doing your part.
48% of the popular vote went to Kamala.
Tell me more about this Libs didn’t vote thing.
