- cross-posted to:
- housing_bubble_2@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- housing_bubble_2@lemmy.world
Credit Andy Singer 2024
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It’s just greed. They throw in god’s name to relieve themselves of any personal responsibility.
They also throw in God’s name to get the religious rubes on board.
Ok. Native here. Get out, both of you.
If I thought some other place would take me, I would.
The number of “100% native” people in the U.S. is likely 0. The idea of people leaving if they weren’t from here goes back forever, everywhere. Eventually it’s just a debate of if we are all from Africa or not.
“Go back to being a neanderthal dweeb!”
… Sadly, acceptance and growth are harder than resentment. And most of the time we resent the wrong people.
Go back to Ireland/Scotland? Sure. I need to bring news of what fun things Americans can do with potatoes back to the homeland anyways.
Potato cannon = good times
Best I can do is a spud gun
I was thinking about stuff like chili but that’s fun too.
Reminds me of this.
that was a fun watch
It’s kind of disingenuous.
It portrays Orthodox Jewishness as being responsible for genocidal Zionism when Orthodox Jewishness has pretty much always been vehemently critical of both Zionism and the creation of Israel.
The Jewish Zionists that perpetrated the Nakba looked no different than their fellow Europeans.
Not really the main crux of the video, is it?
It’s a very important point, considering that the crux of all the white supremacist propaganda we’ve been fed about Israel rests on the idea that Israel (somehow) “represents” Jewishness… and I’d say this plays right into the hasbara’s hands.
Beat me to it, great recommendation
I think at this stage we can just call manifest destiny “Americanism.”
Stay in school, friend. This was done countless times well before America became a nation.
Consider your apologetics rejected.
The notion of a “promised land” is a lie humans tell to themselves to monopolise the resources we all share with all living things.
It also doesn’t make much sense in the particular context considering on a genetic level Palestinians are as Semitic as modern Ashkenazi jews. And it doesn’t make much sense from a religious stand point because modern Judaism differs from ancient Judaism by about the same amount as Christianity or Islam does. Modern Judaism just has this dogma that Ancient Judaism was secretly observing their form of it even though if we don’t take them at their word there isn’t a lot of evidence of that.
So from a religious standpoint it doesn’t make a lot of sense. And from an ethnic standpoint it makes even less sense.
And also we don’t let Europeans say “these are our ethnic lands” without calling them racist. So then why would we let people who are like 2% ethnic ancient jewish retroactively claim ethnic ownership of some land without calling them racist? They will claim it’s not about race and about religion. Ok, which is worse, a group of highly militant ethno-nationalists, or a group of highly militant theo-nationalists? Zionists are always one of two bad things and they will use arguments to play wackamole about which one to deflect the claims of one. Apparently if you are two bad things at once and it is unclear if you are both or just one of those things you get unlimited license to be both of those bad things.
This comic would have been just as effective–and less insulting–had they not included the explanation at the top; the graphic gets the point across just fine.
The situation isn’t comparable. The majority of Jews in Israel are not European (or from anywhere else), they’re native Israeli and they trace their roots to Israel back for millennia.
The problem is not that Israelis want to live there. They have a right to live there. The problem is that they’re depriving Palestinians of their right to live there instead of seeking peaceful coexistence.
Pretty sure modern Israel was founded by western powers as a place to send Jews after WWII.
Any sources
Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe.
Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history.
Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.
That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.
Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
Quote
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
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10 myths of Israel by Ilan Pappe, summerized and full book
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Transfer Committee and the JNF led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate.
Ethnic Cleansing
Good Books on the History
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Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
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The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
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A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
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The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
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The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
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The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
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10 Myths of Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
Wdym sources? You want me to post links 100 year old documents pertaining to British Occupation of Palestine and subsequent League of Nations and later U.N. resolutions to move more Jewish people into Palestine? You need written accounts of the May 13th 1948 withdrawal of British Troops and May 14th establishment of Israel as the first “Jewish State” in 2,000 years?
How about a source on POTUS Truman publicly acknowledging Israel 11 minutes after it was founded. “Some advisors felt that creating a Jewish state was the only proper response to the holocaust and would benefit American interests” according to TrumanLibrary.gov
Why should I have to waste time educating your ass that can’t perform basic web searches?
Right but this is a separate issue. My original comment was about Israelis whose families have been living in that region of the world for millennia. They have a right to be there. They are not equivalent to colonists from Europe arriving in the Americas.
The Israeli government uses antisemitism as a weapon to attack their critics. They conflate criticism of the Israeli government with attacks on Jews. It’s bullshit, duplicitous rhetoric.
But here we are conflating Israelis who can trace their ancestry to that region for millennia with (a minority of) European Jews who moved there during/after WW2, and calling all of them colonists. Now we are being duplicitous!
Nobody’s right to be anywhere supercedes other people’s, nor justifies killing.
It sounds like you’re describing a Secular One-State Solution with equal rights for both Israeli and Palestinian people, in the sense that both have the right to live there
One or Two State Solution
The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.
- Avi Shlaim
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
I’m not describing any state solution!
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We [as in entire human population] can all convert to Judaism but it won’t ever change our ancestry. It’s just a religion.
Who are you trying to convince to do what, exactly?
Palestinians aren’t natives. they migrated at the same time as everyone else, 1 million people in 10 years.
Yep, it was the only habitable parcel of land in the world with zero inhabitants until 1832. Jewish people and Palestinians both saw this weird chunk of land and realized they could just move there since no one else was there.
that’s exactly what happened… 1 million Arabs migrated in less than 10 years. whatever population was there before them was completely out numbered by the Arabs. the migration was 30x the increase seen at the same time the “baby boomers” were booming. that’s 30x population count, not 30x the percentage.
Buddy. There were Arabs there.
and they were replaced by more Arabs, follow along:
Arabs can be both a victim and a perpetrator amongst themselves.
crazy right?
Or and this is nuts, but the Ottoman Empire was building up the area and urbanization was happening. Nobody got replaced, it was just more people moving in.
those are synonyms, or are we all pretending gentrification doesn’t exist again?
Oh no, they built more housing and improved the economy! The horror!
Well, except Europeans never lived in America before Columbus, but Jews did live in Palestine/ Middle East
Some did, but the whole point of Israel was a place for European countries to send their Jewish populations.
People who even if they were also ethnically Semitic, were descended from people who voluntarily left the area generations ago.
They could have immigrated there, instead European governments just declared it was theirs now.
Like, imagine if every American with Irish heritage were granted birthright citizenship there and the people who never left are shoved down into an ever shrinking slice of land. That’s what’s happening
were descended from people who voluntarily left the area generations ago
There have been forced deportations from that area for millenia. They’re talked about in the Bible and the Romans did it.
Weird then how the majority of Palestinians are a genetically unbroken set of lineages from before the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Some deportations from very specific areas happened, like from Jerusalem to the West Bank during Roman rule.
I’m not sure the point you’re trying to make…I was just pointing out that “voluntarily leaving what is now Israel” is wildly misleading and wrong
My point is you’re incorrect. Jews have continuously lived in what is now Israel for 4000 years.
Where did I say anything about Jews not living there continuously? Idk what you’re talking about now
Jews did live in Palestine/ Middle East
Look up the history of the Beta Israelis / Ethiopian Jews and their treatment in the reconstituted state of Israel.
Compare that to the treatment of Afrikaner Israeli converts emigrating from South Africa and Russian/Ukrainian Jews fleeing violence in the current Russo-Ukraine War.
You’ll notice one of the groups was targeted for mandatory sterilization and it wasn’t the white folks.
I up voted, this has no justification
The Jewish settlers didn’t live in Palestine, they lived in Europe and then moved to Palestine to steal the land. They’re white.
Just because one ancestor a dozen generations ago lived somewhere doesn’t mean you have a right to evict the actual people living on that land.
That thinking is like believing you have the right to expel the people that lives in the house your grandmother lived on but left when she got married. But now the house is yours because “here lived my family”.
Yeah, but then add a dozen or more generations. Not your grandma, your many times removed ancestor from before the printing press or some shit.
I said grandmother to show an example that can’t be used with the “but it’s an historical thing”.
So you created an example that doesn’t match on purpose?
To show how dumb is that argument. “My ancestors from 2000 years ago lived there, therefore this land is mine” is as dumb as “my grandmother lived there, therefore this house is mine”. With the same reasoning, Italy could claim all the Mediterranean coast belongs to them. And if it’s from “God gave us this land”, Spain and Portugal divided the Earth (except Europe) for them “because God”. Does this mean Spain and Portugal can claim “their land” back?
Palestinians didn’t live in Palestine during that time, either. they migrated when everyone else did.
A ton of them just converted from Judaism. This idea that Arabs flooded into Palestine after kicking all the Jews out is racist revisionist history.
that’s not what I said at all.
they migrated when everyone else did.
How am I supposed to read this as anything other than “Palestinians migrated into Israel when the Jews migrated out”? Which, I must reiterate, is a racist myth.
I don’t agree on wording in the first paragraph, but do agree with the second paragraph.
What now? Evicting all 8 millions of Israeli to make Hamas happy?
How about ending apartheid and making a multiethnic, multi-religious democratic state from the river to the sea? Israelis can become Palestinian, they don’t need to leave.
Yes, how about we all end the wars, and just live happy on our beautiful Earth? 😊
As we all know, ending apartheid and constructing multiracial democracy is impossible. 🙄
Now imagine a civil war happens in the US and the only places spared are the Indian reservations. And when the war ends, with the army, the air force, the national guard, … all destroyed, the Indians start spreading their territory bombing the remnants of the US, with some help from Russia or China or…
Will you find the Indians have the right to carpet bomb NY or Dallas because they lived there 2 or 3 centuries ago?
I don’t think so?
Then what right have the Israelis to carpet bomb Palestine?
I don’t support carpet bombing neither. I do support the pager explosion thing tho.
So you support turning people into suicide bombers without them knowing it. What if the ones with the bomb were from your country? Remember that civilians were hurt too.
Yes, i really think it was a well targeted operation. Almost no civilian was hurt. If Ukraine could pull that off against Russian FSB, i would be ao happy
And if the targets are from the US? UK? Ukraine? France? What then? Still good? An attack to kill every US general but with hundreds of civilians wounded or killed?
Jewish people living in Palestine is no fig leaf to justify European genocidal colonialism.
