• teslasaur@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Last question is pretty legit though. Isn’t there data of how many black kids grow up without a father?

    • NatakuNox@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Lol that’s a stereotype. One parent not being in the picture is a poverty thing. Not a black thing. Since poverty disproportionately effects black Americans out seems like it’s a black problem but it’s a system of oppression problem.

      • teslasaur@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Look at the graphs and compare the relative Poverty between latinos as blacks. Then looks at the graphs showing single mothers. There is some correlation between poverty and single motherhood, clearly. But there is definitely a great disparity between the various poor that you just can’t wave off as “racism”. It might be systematic, but not only a system perpetrated by the white majority, cause then the graphs would be equal for latonis and blacks. So perhaps there is a systemic issue within the black community causing men to not take responsibility for their own children? https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00027162221120759

        • Benjaben@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Not everyone believes this, but my understanding is that declassified (CIA I think? been a while) documents support the assertion that parts of our government employed a strategy designed to disrupt black communities. This strategy involved flooding predominantly black neighborhoods with crack cocaine, and then letting addiction, crime, and incarceration take their course.

          It worked really well.

          And then add in policies over the years that have perversely incentivized splitting up households (much-needed aid not available depending on who lives in the home), too, which may have been well-intentioned but proved very damaging to communities.

          And we should also not forget - when comparing poverty outcomes between black and Latino Americans - these groups did not start from equivalent points. The practice of slavery did lasting, massive damage to the black community in the US - it’s basically impossible to extract present outcomes from that history. Far too much trauma.

        • NatakuNox@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Lol this doesn’t give any context and has cherry picked data with poor controls over variables. (Like why is a parent missing? Is it due to over incarceration and policing of black communities? Is it due to poor financial state of schools in black communities? What classifies a single mother? Does that mean the father is not in the child’s life at all or just not currently in a relationship with the mother? What about single father’s? Is that accounted for?)

          There’s nothing in the black community or genetics. It’s all outside societal pressures. There are hundreds of studies on this by way more reputable sources with vastly different conclusions. The black community is no different when it comes to wanting to have a family and wanting to be involved with that family. But Black Americans ( especially black women) deal with outside factors that essentially guarantees most black Americans are second class citizens.

    • IzzyScissor@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      The fact that you “know it’s a talking point” but don’t know the statistics makes me feel that you should re-think who created the statistics in the first place and why.

      • teslasaur@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00027162221120759

        Data for this study comes from the LIS, which is an archive of cross-nationally and historically harmonized individual-level nationally representative datasets. U.S. data in the LIS come from the Annual Social and Economic March Supplement of the CPS. The main advantage of using the LIS over the underly- ing CPS is the higher-quality and improved income measures that comprehen- sively incorporate taxes and transfers and therefore yield improved poverty measures. I analyze twenty-five waves of LIS data for the United States from 1995 to 2018. I select this time period because it includes all the U.S. datasets for which all variables in the study are available.1

        • IzzyScissor@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          Lmfao, from your article:

          it seems more research exploring the role of structural forces (e.g., the labor market, policies, racism, etc.) would be a fruitful avenue for advancing our understanding of the enduring racial inequality in child poverty and the penalties attached to child poverty risks.

          Even your article calls out that racism is a major factor that should be studied. Glad you agree.

          • teslasaur@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Not the argument. Nor is there an argument here. The question could be boiled down to: are there more black single mothers? Yes, categorically, unequivocally yes. Doesn’t say anything about the fathers race though, granted. I kinda went by the fact that most couples are not “mixed race”. Which is a bit presumtous by me, but not a bad presumtion given history.

            Haven’t made any claims of any reasons. Just that it is. And therefore the last statement in the meme is kinda meh and sticks out among the others.

            • IzzyScissor@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              I asked you to think about why a stat might be popular.

              You cited an article without personal comment.

              I quoted your article back to you.

              You refused to acknowledge the citation as a factor in your statistic, but also don’t have another argument without that statistic.

              F

              • teslasaur@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                You didn’t ask me anything? You made a slightly condescending comment.

                You quoted something that isn’t relevant to my point. But i acknowledge the existence of a flaw in my thinking, in that the fact doesn’t say anything about the race of the father.

                A statistic isn’t popular, it just is. And the meme is dishonest for pretending it doesn’t exist.

            • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
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              1 day ago

              What’s the point you’re trying to actually make?

              the last statement in the meme is kinda meh and sticks out among the others.

              If it sticks out you’re missing the point of the chain of statements.
              It’s not that the other statements are or are not statistically justified, it’s that making comments to people that are clearly being made because of their race and perceptions about their race is something that tends to happen regularly to black people and other minorities, and not so much to others.

    • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      It is more common for black fathers to be absent according to certain demographic measures.
      However: race is not the only factor to the statistic, and the statistic in not defined well through time.
      At one point “divorced or never married mother” was the basis for the statistic. Shifting it to “father lives in a separate home” is better but still misses that you can live in a separate home and still be there for your kid. That’s before you get to adoptive fathers and all the other non-biological support roles.

      For all those measures, economics is a better predictor than race. Race serving as an indirect measure of economics is its own can of worms and bias.

      Finally, a question can be statistically valid and still be biased, inappropriate, or just rude.
      “You’re black, so I don’t want to assume your child’s father is around” is all of those.