Would have been more impact if It would have been rephrase “Please thread on me daddy”
They never learn. They will just lay blame on anything but the GOP. (Gray Old Pedophiles)
Came to these comments to say “Naive of you to assume they’ll learn anything.”
“I’m a fascist and a right-libertarian and pro-union.” The only positive takeaway I have from this is that some people are so uninformed (or overinformed but with no ability to think critically) that they make these choices – and thus education and outreach may still yet save us.
I hate to say it but dismissing these people like that is how the Dems got here.
This is someone who wants things to be better. They’re pro-union because they want someone to fight for their rights. And they’re pro-Trump because all four years of the Dems has done for them is make prices higher. The Dems have been crowing about how the economy is doing better than ever, but for people like this it’s not. GDP and the Fortune 500 being up is great for investors, but it’s not great for an average worker. For an average worker, things are worse than ever.
They don’t know that much about what Trump stands for, but they know he stands for “something other than this.” And for these people - for the vast majority of people today - “this” isn’t working.
The Dems need to reach voters like this, and they absolutely can. These people aren’t for fascism, they just don’t believe that that’s what they’re voting for. They believe they’re voting for change, and Trump is the only person offering them change. What the Dems offered them was “more of the same”, and that’s not an appealing offer to people who are drowning.
My dude you are not wrong - but how do you talk to these people about policy nuances and compromise to get things done if THEY’RE the ones being dismissive about things and rejecting objective reality? I get that they’re not doing well. That doesn’t mean that anyone (including Trump) can wave a magic wand and make things better. It seems to me the only way to win these voters over is to play the Republican game - get your own propaganda arm for your political party and yell and lie louder than the Republicans.
You’re skipping right past the really simple thing that so few of the Dems; tell them that they’re right.
These people are hurting, and both Harris and Biden simply told them “No you’re not, look how high the NASDAQ is.”
That’s a bullshit way to treat someone when they’re struggling and asking for help. The simplest thing to do is just to say “Yes, you’re right, shit fucking sucks and we need to make it better.”
That’s why people love Bernie. That’s why there’s such a huge crossover in people who voted for Trump and people who voted for AOC. Cortez doesn’t bullshit people. She knows they’re hurting, she knows they’re poorer now than they were four years ago and she says it.
This is what Bernie means when he says the Dems have abandoned the working class. The crazy part is, Biden was actually great for unions. The NLRB under his tenure oversaw one of the largest expansions in union membership in US history. But instead of talking about that they talked about how great people’s fucking investment portfolios are doing. That doesn’t mean shit to people who can’t afford a fucking investment portfolio.
Before they worry about selling people on the details of the plan, the Dems could start by just addressing their problems, instead of telling them they don’t have any problems.
I don’t think I heard Kamala or Biden talk about the stock market much. Their message was that unemployment is down, and inflation adjusted wages are up.
Nothing counter indicative with libertarian and union. Unions allow more equal negotiating power with business/capital when government is limited in scope. People should be allowed to decide if they want to unionize for themselves though, without coercion from capital and with protections to be allowed to do so.
Libertarians should also be requesting government do it’s job and crush monopolies and enforce the regulations that keep the “free market” both free and level for all participants, and the right-libertarians are mostly actually theocratic feudalists masquerading as libertarian these days.
That’s why I specified right-libertarian. I think basically all left-libertarians recognize the need for workers’ unions. The problem with right-libertarians here is that they see the union itself and the kinds of government regulation that lets those unions be effective as the entities “treading on” them.
In complete agreement, but would point out that for some (maybe many) center- and right-libertarians they see the graft and waste that the post-labor rights boom era as analogous to tyrannical government due to many nuggets of truth. Labor isn’t immune to corruption any more than capital is, and capital took massive advantage in demonizing unions because of actual flaws to exaggerate.
Police unions getting bad cops rehired and back on the streets has similar analogs in the biggest labor unions. Public sector unions probably shouldn’t exist, and police unions definitely shouldn’t, and some people continue that line of thinking into private sector labor unions.
Any organization of a sufficient size will suffer inefficiencies and exploitation, so any union large enough to bargain with a monopoly will end up just as bloated and corruptible. The obvious solution (as I see it) is to break the monopolies into reasonable sizes so the unions are also manageable and accountable, so capital can’t use such effective whataboutisms.
Imagine being pro union but also somehow libertarian. Fuckin wild. Do they not realize that in a libertarian system anyone trying to form a union would be fired immediately?
Maybe they want small government…so they can fight the government with their union?
It’s a bit like saying that you want to fight Mike Tyson, but only if you remove his arms and vision.
Not if the Taft-Hartley Act is abolished. They usually don’t know about that regulation so I start there.
I’m not sure I understand your point exactly. What exactly does the libertarian philosophy say about unions? A union is essentially just people who choose to associate with eachother and act as a single entity under an employer; in a free market, their bargaining power would be proportional to their size — its growth would impact the pool of potential employees that could be hired outside of the union. There could be, for example, laws in place which prevent a company from firing a union, which a libertarian would generally oppose, but a libertarian needn’t necessarily oppose the concept of unions, imo.
My point was concise and abundantly clear. I’m not sure how one could fail to understand how an employer won’t do anything they’re not compelled to do by law (As evidenced by the very existence of OSHA, for one.) which would include good faith negotiation with a union.
My point was concise and abundantly clear.
I wasn’t asking for your opinion of the clarity of your own post. All that’s important in this conversation is that your point wasn’t clear to me. If one is interested in continuing a conversation in good faith, then they would want to make sure that all parties involved are accurately following what’s being said.
I’m not sure how one could fail to understand how an employer won’t do anything they’re not compelled to do by law (As evidenced by the very existence of OSHA, for one.) which would include good faith negotiation with a union.
As long as the market is competitive and the agents involved are well-informed. Things like OSHA come in to play when the second requirement fails; if it is not possible for a consumer to make a well-informed purchase, then there should be reasonable protections in place for that consumer to make up for the deficiency.
Hm, are you using that to mock the Gadsden flag in general [1], or are you using that to poke fun at the, imo, “cognitive-dissonant” mixture of the MAGA symbol and the Gadsden flag?
References
- “Portarossa” (u/Portarossa) [To: “What is the deal with the ‘No Step on Snek’ flag?”. “JeanPaulMarat” (u/JeanPaulMarat). “OutOfTheLoop” (r/OutOfTheLoop). Reddit. Published: 2021-12-31T07:13:43.360Z. Accessed: 2024-11-24T04:14Z. https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/rso5vl/what_is_the_deal_with_the_no_step_on_snek_flag/.]. Reddit. Published: 2021-12-31T08:14:00.653Z. Accessed: 2024-11-24T04:15Z. https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/rso5vl/comment/hqnrezn/.
It’s sad but that flag has lost its original meaning as a revolutionary symbol and has been fully co-opted by libertarians. So really, making fun of it in general is fine because libertarians are wackos. But especially with a Trump sticker, it’s clear they don’t understand at least one of the philosophies they stuck on their car.
[…] that flag has lost its original meaning as a revolutionary symbol and has been fully co-opted by libertarians. […]
Now that’s an interesting take! Why do you think that its symbolism doesn’t align with libertarianism (I assume that’s what you meant when you said “co-opted by libertarians”)?
[…] libertarians are wackos […]
What do you not like about libertarians?
The latter.
There was a house like that at a town near us that has a cafe my daughter likes to go to. A giant Trump flag, a Trump banner on both porch railings, and a “Proud Union Home” sign in the yard. Made me shake my head every time I saw it.
I’m a school bus driver and we’re all members of the Teamsters. Most of my coworkers are fanatical trumpers - in their universe it’s the GOP who are pro-union and the liberals who are trying to destroy unions (and help the illegal immigrants). A few of the most fanatical trumpers are (married) lesbians as well. Dealing with conservatives has always been a frustrating experience, but at least they used to be internally consistent with their shit. This complete disconnect from all aspects of reality seems like the one truly new part of all this.
Unfettered capitalism means people have a rough time, instead of doing a bit of introspection it’s easier to blame minorities and/or look for a guy who talks big and promises big sweeping changes
Oh, it is already happening. There are a LOT of these people in my part of the country. They are all fuming because their compensation is getting cut, and some companies are moving to Europe, in preparation for the Trump tariffs.
Yeah, the V6 in those traverse are garbage. Sooner or later that timing chain is going to let go and ruin your whole week.
Yeaaaah hopefully my wifes 2013 keeps up till my car is paid off. Just replaced my 2008 with a 2021.
Thought i heard to replace the chain they have to rip out the engine to replace that….
Change the oil every 3000 miles, use synthetic or synthetic blend(dexos) and you will have your best chances.
If you need to replace the timing chain, you replace it with a new engine. Maybe you can get lucky and your mechanic is a rockstar that catches it at the right time and you trust them enough to spend a few grand replacing the chain, but the majority of cases are that the pistons fucks the valves like a Tijuana hooker you pick off the pole.
Right? Might as well at that point but then you’re dropping even more money in on a 11+ year old vehicle with all that wear and tear.
We’re already having fun where the front passenger window doesn’t like to roll down from the front passenger side switch. Just haven’t done the troubleshooting to see if it is the switches, wiring or motor thats at fault. Well I don’t think the back windows will go down from their switches either. Almost like child lock got turned on and stuck even thought its off.
Funny thing is that it can be the driver’s window control panel. When it rains it gets the most water on it and can screw up other windows.
Boooooo…… well i don’t think those are too expensive. Maybe grab one off eBay and pray lol
As long as it is NIB with matching part numbers it can be worth a shot.
My first car (originally a shitty “luxury” 1984 Ford LTD, and this was in 1996) was such an old piece of shit that I had to have a pair of pliers in the glove compartment because the power window on the driver’s side would go down and if I didn’t stop it on the way down in time, the only way to get it to go up again was to give it an assist, first with the pliers, and then with my hand.
It was also a gorgeous two-tone brown. One seriously ugly car.
Your fucking snek is gonna get stepped on
Snek
No step
The fact that both of those bumper stickers are on that car shows how much the Democratic Party has failed the working class
Would you mind explaining the how the presence of the Gadsden flag on its own shows that “the Democratic Party has failed the working class”? I just don’t exactly understand your comparison.
It’s the Trump/union one, not the Gadsden flag.
Ah, okay, it makes sense, then! I honestly didn’t even notice the union one; I thought you were referring to the Trump sticker and the Gadsden flag.
They busted a union strike
What they’re going to learn is that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans care if their families eat, and next election, it’ll be 25 million who decide not to vote instead of ten, like it was this time around.
You “both sides are the same” fools are even worse than the libertarians. What’s your genius idea, buddy? That if you can get nobody to vote in the next election, then the political system will grind to a halt, scratch it’s head and say, oh shit, let’s call FlashMobOfOne and ask them what we do now? LOL
What YOU are going to learn is that apathy like yours is always a Loser’s strategy. All it ever does is ensure that the worst choice gets elected, the one that absolutely does not care to come to the table and listen to your ideas. The one that is 100% Conservative and will do everything in it’s power to undo every Progressive accomplishment.
You know, just like what happened this time. Instead of being a chump your whole life, read some history. You’ll be surprised to see there is a long record of people like you being ignored for hundreds of years.
Sure thing, friend.
Try telling that to wage earners. They live the neglect on both sides every day.
this hurts me
I’m not sure a single union endorsed Trump.
The Teamsters president didn’t endorse anyone, but spoke at the RNC. That’s likely the reason they got a reasonable Labor Secretary.
Ahaha 🤣. Right, okay.
I wish they were capable of learning.
