That would be a morally correct political faux pas, that would result in Republicans scoring easy points just by saying “See! We told you so!”
It’s the kind of suggestion someone in a leftwing political bubble would make, forgetting that to actually be effective, you have to win votes from both sides.
There’s no room for tactical errors this election, even if they would make you feel morally superior. It’s not a game of moral signaling, it’s a game of politics. The point is not to be right, it’s to win the election.
Any other vulnerable minorities you want to throw under the bus while you’re at it?
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do you think winning an election is about the popular vote?
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do you think the Democrats are more likely to support trans rights?
If you answered yes to both, then maybe don’t suggest importing wedge issues into something that’s about the popular vote?
Do you want to give Trump more voters? Because that’s what you’re angling for. That’s what the headline is suggesting to do.
You’re mistaking wanting the most minority supporting side of politics to win the election for not supporting minorities? How the fuck doesn’t that even make sense.
Kamala’s job is currently defensive, dodge dodge dodge, stay clean, watch Trump get dirty and sink. It’s simple.
As soon as she’s won, then it’s time to be very very very noisy (and violent) on progressive and socialist issues again. But right now that’s only going to act as a kind of sabotage.
Which is fine if you’re an accelerationist who sees value to strengthening American Fascism. But I just want to try to end the Republican party.
If you answered yes to both
I answered no to both.
Do you want to give Trump more voters?
The only argument any centrist has when they move to the right like they all want to.
So you don’t believe they need the popular vote to win and you believe that the Republicans would be better at defending trans rights?
I bet they don’t answer you.
I hope you had money riding on it.
Geez, you’re a bit crabby, aren’t you.
I believe that the popular vote isn’t sufficient to win, as it wasn’t when Clinton lost with the popular vote.
I believe Democrats won’t protect trans rights, either.
You’ve chosen to be dishonest as fuck about my positions.
She didn’t get the popular vote where it mattered, popular vote is still what is needed
So you think it’s just as likely they won’t protect trans right as it is likely the Republicans won’t? Because that was the question.
Looking at Democrat’s States vs Republican States it’s pretty clear you’re wrong about that second part.
She didn’t get the popular vote where it mattered, popular vote is still what is needed
Trump won without it.
So you think it’s just as likely they won’t protect trans right as it is likely the Republicans won’t?
I don’t trust either of them at all on this issue. I think they’re just itching to throw another vulnerable minority under the bus like they did with the undocumented immigrants you’re using Republican talking points about.
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The mainstream talking point of Democrats turned to “we need to play it safe and win all the Republican votes”.
They believe only centrist moderate voters can be scared away. And claim progressives are always guaranteed to vote Democrat. Everything hangs on that assumption.
It’s a pretty good assumption. You’d have to be a complete shit popsicle to vote for someone worse on all the issues you care about, because the party that gives any fucks whatsoever isn’t doing enough.
Bernie Bros: “hold my beer”
So because of this you and other so called Dems will vote for a fascist?
So because the other guy’s a fascist, you’ll take the opportunity to throw trans people under the bus like you and all centrists have always wanted to do?
Harris is sitting here telling you that she will not stop funding/supplying the genocide of Palestinians, that she will take a stricter border policy and continue building the wall, that under her the US military will be the most lethal fighting force. Not to mention her horrific track record up to this point. A vote for Harris is just as much a vote for fascism as a vote for Trump is. Not that voting out fascism in the USA was ever a realistic option to begin with.
ITT: we do the white moderate thing MLK talked about where we set a timetable for someone’s rights. I’m sure one day it’ll be politically convenient to support trans people, y’all just hang in there.
ITT: a bunch of leftists destroying the most progressive party because it failed their purity test by not talking about something that anyone with a bit of logic would know would lose them votes even if it’s known they’re in favor of it.
It’s more deontologists vs consequentialists.
In the words of James Baldwin… https://youtu.be/UBFDdTIYZ6Q
“Should Have” in what sense? Like as a moral matter or to get elected? They’re very different things.
Like as a moral matter or to get elected? They’re very different things.
Are they?
If a politician has certain morals but they set them aside to get elected, do they still hold those morals?
If a politician makes up morals they don’t have to get elected, did they ever truly hold those morals?
The answer to both is a resounding NO.
If you abandon/adopt morals to get elected, you have no morals, you have self interests.
Whatever distinction you’re trying to make, or why, is a you issue, there is no way to twist this in to it being ok.
Is not mentioning trans rights during an election speech the same thing as being against trans rights?
Nope. They are very different things. I’m all for trans rights, but I don’t bring it up in every conversation I have about politics. That’s not setting aside my morals or abandoning them.
Hypothetically, what if talking about trans rights turned off more voters than it brought in? What if that led to trump getting elected? Would it have been better to not mention it in the first place, or was the morality of mentioning it more important than trying to get elected during an election speech?
They didn’t mention trans rights because they didn’t want to alienate the Republicans that they’re courting. They would rather shit on progressives than lose a conservative vote.
It’s not only Republicans voters that plan to vote for the Democrats that would be alienated by a “woke” candidate, for some it would be enough to just not go out and vote and I’m willing to bet that more people would do that than the number of people that would be convinced to vote by raising the issue.
Why do you think that it’s shitting on progressives? Can someone not mention during a speech but still work to pass legislation in support of trans rights when they have the power to do so, after an election where they need votes that may be turned off by the issue? Nobody came out against trans rights. An omission on the topic isn’t anti trans.
If not talking about an issue now may mean more voters so that real change may happen, even if that means courting republicans, why is that a bad thing?
It’s possible to support something without talking about it one time.
They have zero interest in protecting trans rights.
Based on what? There is zero basis in your claim.
Based on Republicans passing over 500 anti-trans bills the last several years and Democrats haven’t done shit except talk about it. Democrat version of protecting their rights is telling them they’re free to use whatever restroom they want, while ignoring that they don’t have access to affordable Health Care or housing and may live in abject poverty while using that preferred restroom.
Is not mentioning trans rights during an election speech the same thing as being against trans rights?
In this climate, when we are under direct and active attack? Fucking yes.
I’m all for trans rights, but I don’t bring it up in every conversation I have about politics.
Gotta love the overinflated ego, but you aren’t trying to win an election to run a fucking country, your conversations aren’t relevant.
Hypothetically, what if talking about trans rights turned off more voters than it brought in? What if that led to trump getting elected? Would it have been better to not mention it in the first place, or was the morality of mentioning it more important than trying to get elected during an election speech?
If you prioritise winning over bigots over your morals, and are willing to further compromise the safety of marginalised people for the sake of furthering your career - you are just as much of a bigot, and again - have no moral, only self interests.
Claiming that supporting trans rights will get trump elected is flat out manipulative bigotry, and makes you a liar, because you’re not all for trans rights, you’re only for trans rights when it’s convenient for you.
You are being the “white moderate” that causes more harm than the outright bigot does, because you pretend to support the cause, but are happy to tell others to wait for their liberation until it’s more convenient for you.
Do you know what the word hypothetical means? While you’re searching for that, loik up what a false equivalence is as well, so that maybe you can stop using them.
It’s possible for a person to not mention something during a speech and still fight for that cause. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
I’m sorry, but when there is so much at stake we have to lie. politicians have always lied. left and right. it’s in their nature. they can’t help it. if it’s politically expedient to lie, even by omission, so the enemy doesn’t use it against you and chips away at that majority, then I’m totally comfortable with that. of course, I’d much prefer that it was illegal for politicians to lie, like they are trialing in Wales, then we’d have a very different calibre of politics. I’m all for that. bring on enforced honesty in politics. but until that’s established and the enemy, and let me make this very clear, the US Nazis are very much the enemy, we have to temper our political persona a bit. once we win then we show how inclusive and caring we are. but if saying something what could be used in an attack against our valiant cause, it’s ok to hide it. for now. look at Walz, he’s an ally to the cause and we’re not hiding him. he’s in full view, heart on his sleeve, and from what I can tell, he’s a really good man. those are the qualities we need to show off. we’re not hiding those morals, we’re just not shouting loudly about some of the more progressive values we hold, so they can’t be twisted and used against us. we need to win this election. fairly and absolutely convincingly. and I’m talking as a Kiwi, a citizen of Earth, watching on in horror what could be coming and the pivot in geopolitical power that would inevitably occur. your election has way more reach than just your shores. the good guys need to win and kick the US Nazis so hard in the nuts they remember loosing forever. anyway. thanks for listening
The democrats didn’t leave fighting for trans rights out because they fear being attacked (literally every word they say will get twisted and attacked), but because they don’t intend to fight for them, and saying they do, would be the lie.
The fact that you fuckers are so willing to take it the other way and support the idea of erasing one of the main groups being targeted right now in order to win over some bigots (despite, in your own warped minds, them really truly supporting trans rights, promise!) is honestly disgusting.
“Win over bigots to beat the bigot!”
How the fuck do you think that ends for trans people?
They’ve never campaigned on trans rights, how do those rights compare in Democrats’ States vs Republican ones?
Would you rather the bigots vote for Trump?
Na. They did the right thing. It’s implied. Why give the trump idiots more ammo.
The trans community and it’s supporters know they’re being attacked by the right and needs to vote Dem, so they’ve got that locked in. What political advantage is there in making it a campaign issue for the Dems when the GOP has done all the work already?
Oh my god. This account finds something to nitpick at the Dems and posts every five minutes. Notice how they barely - if ever - post anything critical of Republicans?
Every. Five. Minutes.
You want a seat ta the table? Learn how politics works. Otherwise, I don’t know, go back to purity testing the Dems every five minutes. See where that gets you.
The only people ever afforded a seat at the table are the moneyed class. And Democrats do need to be put under a microscope because they’re the ones that pretend to be allies to the marginalized, While they Co opt our languages to use against us when we decide to not vote for them because they stabbed us in the back. Republicans wear their racism and their bigotry on their shoulders for all to see. For Democrats, it’s covert.
Sure. Except the policies they pass represent their electorate and are diametrically opposed to Republicans.
Listen, I’m for all the same things everyone on this platform wants. The issue is our generation is terminally online but doesn’t bother to vote. If you want to make changes disengaging from the political system altogether is not the answer. Building coalitions and doing the hard work is. But that takes work and is not exciting, so it’s just easier for accounts like @return2ozma@lemmy.world to keep spamming non-stop about how “both parties are equal” and “corpo overlords”. It’s just more fun, isn’t it?
Many of those that chose not to vote are disenfranchised voters that do not feel represented in government, and rightfully so. Many of our lives do not fundamentally change for the better regardless which shade of fascism runs the government.
Liberals talk about building coalitions, which translates to ‘do it our way otherwise you want the other team to win.’ They want zero input from the marginalized groups they help keep marginalized, they do not listen to our needs.
Claiming that you want all the same things other people want is disingenuous when you demand we support the people fighting those changes.
Gurl I’m still saying vote for Kamala but be aware their shortcomings. Fuck Trump and the GOP.
Sorry. I just don’t buy it.
If you really want to enact change get politically active at the local level and build up. Get a seat at the table. Build coalitions. Run for local elections. Support your city council / school policy. Talk about what you can do.
Spamming incessantly about how bad the Dems are betrays a total lack of understanding who the main electoral base is (outside the internet) and how legislation is passed. This has been pointed out to you multiple times. You know all this. You know what you’re doing. We see it.
I don’t buy it.
The working class will NEVER have a seat at their table, only promises and illusions that someday we will so they can stay in power.
deleted by creator
Bro. That’s great but you realize you could be doxxing yourself? I wouldnt post information like that. I don’t agree with your stance politically but I don’t want anything to happen to you either.
Yeah you’re right. I mean people know I live in the LA area already but I’ll delete it anyways.
(The comment was a socialist/far left bookstore)
“they need to be put under a microscope”
You know what they say, there’s no one like someone on the left to make sure the most progressive party lose votes.
There’s so much stuff politicians won’t talk about on the campaign trail because they’re wedge issues and because their records already show they’re in favor/against those things, it’s better to shut up than to alienate a lot of voters to please few voters. Spoiler alert, not all Democrats voters care about trans rights and more of them will jump ship if they believe Harris is woke than will jump in the ship if she starts talking about trans rights during the campaign because the majority of people who support trans rights already understand that the Democrats support their rights even if they don’t make it a campaign issue.
Those of us on the left do not vote for Democrats because we are NOT Democrats.
it’s better to shut up than to alienate a lot of voters
If they won’t stand up and do what’s right in the face of opposition they are not worthy of being elected. Mentioning the marginalized when it’s politically convenient is self serving, and not worthy of being elected.
Gurl… I don’t oppose Democrats because I’m on the same side as Republicans. I oppose Democrats because they’re on the same side as Republicans.
Ah that’s right. When we’re tired of nitpicking and purity testing we can always fall back on the “both sides” argument. It’s so transparent at this point.
I swear these threads are here only to sow division and help Trump. We all know Harris and the Dems support trans rights why do we need them to yell it out loud at every event?
Nothing the Dems do is ever good enough for these people who actually, secretly want Trump to win
Instead of Ignoring Trans Rights at DNC, Dems Should’ve
Vowed to Protect ThemliedFTFY
You know how they say “when people tell you who they are - listen”?
Whatever this is, it’s the opposite of that.
The truth being hard to hear makes it all the more important to. Flat out ignoring it is bad enough, trying to put words and intentions where they don’t exist, is dangerous.
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