Vote for the change you want to see.

The Republican party got remade because trumpists showed up and outvoted the party elites. No reason it can’t happen for the Left except for laziness and apathy.

If all the progressives furious about the state of affairs now had shown up for Sanders in 2016, I doubt we’d be in this hellish timeline. Sadly, he needed the young progressive vote to show up.

  • Lauchs@lemmy.worldOP
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    21 days ago

    Did the DNC stop anyone from voting? There was nothing to stop us from outvoting the establishment. “Oh no, the moderators liked Clinton!” The RNC tried way harder with trump and failed.

    Are we not as capable as goddamn republicans?

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      Do you understand how superdelegates work? they’re not assigned by vote.

      As well, the Bernie campaign was blocked from accessing the voter rolls because they reported a bug to the DNC that allowed them to view stuff the clinton campaign was doing. They did not exploit it, they just reported it.

      Also, did you read that hacked/leaked memo where the DNC chair admitted to intentionally sabotaging Bernie’s campaign? no one has ever contested the contents of that memo. in fact the DNC chair resigned over it. (and you’re an idiot if you think Hilary wasn’t pressuring the DNC chair to do just that. Hilary always has someone else to throw under her campaign bus.)

      • njm1314@lemmy.world
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        21 days ago

        You do realize the super delegates never came into play right? I mean I’m sure they would have if they needed them to but it never got that far.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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          21 days ago

          They were actively endorsing Hilary.

          Yes, they came into play, even if they didn’t yet cast their vote.

          • njm1314@lemmy.world
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            21 days ago

            That’s their right as americans. Anyone can endorse anyone they want. That’s called freedom of speech.

            I don’t see how that would have any effect on anything however though. Or how it’s in any way untoward. If you’re suggesting that one of these super delegates supposed endorsement of Hillary Clinton pushed leftists to vote for her though I’d love to see how you justify that argument.

            • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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              21 days ago

              That’s their right as americans. Anyone can endorse anyone they want. That’s called freedom of speech.

              As a private person, yes. As a representative of the DNC… only if the DNC allows you to. Same as how you’re not allowed to say “[I am an X for Y employer] and we support Mickey Mouse for President” without consequence (probably getting fired, unless you’re specifically authorized to announce it,).

              As for how it affects primaries, you remember all the backlash people got for saying Biden was a bad candidate? All the calls for “party loyalty”? Same thing. That’s how it affects things.

              • njm1314@lemmy.world
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                21 days ago

                Delegates are in no way employed by a party. The entire point of delegates is to endorse a candidate. So these hypothetical super delegates and their supposed endorsement in no way is equal to a direct employee of the party endorsing a candidate.

                That’s how what affects things? You’re saying that leftist didn’t vote for Bernie Sanders because liberals said that would be bad for the party? Well they’re pretty shitty leftists then aren’t they? Why is it so God damn easy for leftists not to vote? I mean the wind changes and suddenly they decide that voting is pointless. I have trouble believing you actually believe this. I have trouble believing any at leftist is so easily cowed as to not vote for their best interest because a capitalist says they shouldn’t.

      • Lauchs@lemmy.worldOP
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        21 days ago

        Maybe you don’t?

        Sanders didn’t win a majority of the votes so whether the super delegates would’ve over-ridden the votes is fairly irrelevant.

        You can argue it wasn’t a completely balanced playing field but there was nothing stopping us from winning the votes except for our refusal to show up rather than bitch online.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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          21 days ago

          Iowa was a hair thin win for clinton, New Hampshire was an overwhelming win for Bernie.

          And that’s when they the DNC started fucking with the Bernie campaign. The superdelegates piling in was making it further impossible for Bernie to win.

          The DNC should just stop pretending it actually cares what it’s base thinks. it’s not like they’re legally obligated to run a primary anyway.

          Also. you do know that candidates in the primary rely on equal access to the voter rolls precisely to reach potential voters and turn out the vote, right? that database was what they DNC cut Bernie off of.

          what makes you think I didn’t vote for Bernie?

          “it wasn’t a level playing field, but you could have still won!” is such a bitchdick move, it’s hilarious. we will never know what Bernie could have done had they not interfered in the primary. Similarly we won’t know just how far the DNC would have gone to prevent a Bernie win.

          they did enough to break Bernie’s momentum and then Hilary fucking lost the main election. in part because she was an arrogant fool and ignored Michigan.

          people like you. You’re the people that practically gave trump the win on a silver platter.

          • Lauchs@lemmy.worldOP
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            21 days ago

            The superdelegates weren’t bound to Clinton. If Sanders had kept winning the vote they’d be hard pressed to over-ride the people.

            I’m not saying you didn’t vote for Bernie, I’m saying not enough people did. This blaming superdelegates is nonsense. Democracy is dificult, people die just to make a protest vote but somehow the fact that Clinton had a lead in uncommitted delegates is too much of a burden? Give me a break. If you want a revolution but can’t actually get the majority of leftist voters to the polls, well, that’s on us.

        • rishado@lemmy.world
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          20 days ago

          People like you are the reason Democrats can’t unite fyi, reducing problems of people who did exactly what you’re saying and got shat on once again

    • distantsounds@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      This response is ironic considering your post.

      Failure to acknowledge how the DNC and super delegates operated in 2016 is a great way to ensure the rightward ratchet.

      • Lauchs@lemmy.worldOP
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        21 days ago

        The super delegates do not change the fact that Clinton got 3,5 million more votes in the primaries than Sanders did. Or, to put it another way, Sanders got 43% of the vote compared to Clinton’s 55%. Those are voters, not pledged delegates.

        Blaming superdelegates is a great way to make sure we don’t change a damn thing. (Also, the DNC changed the role of super delegates afterwards to make them less powerful.)

        • distantsounds@lemmy.world
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          21 days ago

          Everything you listed here is putting the cart before the horse.

          Bernie was doing well until the DNC put all of its backing into Clinton and even ran negative ads against Bernie.

          Get money out of elections if you want change. If you’re just looking to bash people to the left, carry on as you are.

          • Lauchs@lemmy.worldOP
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            21 days ago

            “Oh no, the bad guys ran ads against us!”

            If we can’t overcome horrific barriers like that, how on Earth do you expect wr achieve anything meaningful? Literally all we had to do was get people to show up and vote.

          • njm1314@lemmy.world
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            21 days ago

            No, the cart always has to be voters. Actually showing up to the polls has to be the cart. Anything before that is nonsense. Leftist will never ever ever have any power in this nation unless they show the fuck up. A lot of leftists don’t want to show up they just want to sit back and complain.

              • njm1314@lemmy.world
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                21 days ago

                You saw what happened? You saw more votes go to the other candidate? Because that’s what happened.

                • distantsounds@lemmy.world
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                  21 days ago

                  I find myself thinking, “how could trump possibly get elected (again)?” And then I have exchanges like this.

                  • njm1314@lemmy.world
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                    21 days ago

                    Well certainly yeah I agree that’s exactly how he would win. Leftists thinking they should stay home in a snit. Leftist not showing up is exactly how Trump will win I agree. Which is why I would hope you would join me in telling leftist to get off their ass and vote. Instead you’re making the counter argument for some reason.

            • ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml
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              20 days ago

              I’m not actually trying to argue one way or the other, but

              No, the cart always has to be voters. Actually showing up to the polls has to be the cart. Anything before that is nonsense.

              You’re literally putting the cart before everything else, including the horse. Work on your metaphors a little.