• Tudsamfa@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    20
    ·
    27 days ago

    Whenever someone says they aim to make it “easier to build houses”, I feel they just mean they’ll remove certain standards. Not the “must have this many parking spaces” standards which we can do without, the “do we really need a fire ladder?” standards. And then the house is sold at the same price(+inflation) than before because the cost cut all goes to the builder, not the buyer.

    If you assume the building company is exploiting every change in regulation (they do like money after all), small changes do nothing and you readily adopt more extreme views (and if you’re racists you blame the people with neither money nor power, but that’s expected of them).

    • CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      27 days ago

      It depends where you are, in the UK we have american HOA level regulations on house building, your permission can be denied because of the shade of your roof tiles or because the sheds are using the wrong shape of corrugated roofing sheets. Of course the problem is more that these things are very ill defined and the local planning office gets incredibly petty with the power they’re given.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      27 days ago

      So you’ll be interested in California’s solution. If the project contains enough low income housing and the city won’t approve it the developer can just build it anyways. All the safety standards are still required, they just can’t be stopped from building it. And if they build it within a certain distance of a light rail stop they don’t have to include parking.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        27 days ago

        We’re disproving this really fast in California. It turns out developers want to build single family homes. It’s more profitable to them than buildings.

    • Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      27 days ago

      I’ve never met a person actually making that argument, though. I’m certainly not advocating removing building safety codes, only the NIMBY bullshit like exclusionary zoning that was literally designed to keep people of color far away from white people. Even the opening paragraphs of Wikipedia page for the YIMBY movement say it’s primarily in favor of removing things like exclusionary zoning and parking minimums:

      The YIMBY movement (short for “yes in my back yard”) is a pro-housing movement[1] that focuses on encouraging new housing, opposing density limits (such as single-family zoning), and supporting public transportation. It stands in opposition to NIMBY (“not in my back yard”) tendencies, which generally oppose most forms of urban development in order to maintain the status quo.[2][3][4]

      As a popular organized movement in the United States, the YIMBY movement began in the San Francisco Bay Area in the 2010s amid a housing affordability crisis and has subsequently become a potent political force in local, state, and national[5][6] politics in the United States.[7][8]

      The YIMBY position supports increasing the supply of housing within cities where housing costs have escalated to unaffordable levels.[9] They have also supported infrastructure development projects like improving housing development[10] (especially for affordable housing[11] or trailer parks[12]), high-speed rail lines,[13][4] homeless shelters,[14] day cares,[15] schools, universities and colleges,[16][17] bike lanes, and pedestrian safety infrastructure.[3] YIMBYs often seek rezoning that would allow denser housing to be produced or the repurposing of obsolete buildings, such as shopping malls, into housing.[18][19][20] Cities that have adopted YIMBY policies have seen substantial increase in housing supply and reductions in rent.[21]

      The YIMBY movement has supporters across the political spectrum, including left-leaning adherents who believe housing production is a social justice issue, free-market libertarian proponents who think the supply of housing should not be regulated by the government, and environmentalists who believe land use reform will slow down exurban development into natural areas.[22] Some YIMBYs also support efforts to shape growth in the public interest such as transit-oriented development,[23][24] green construction,[25] or expanding the role of public housing. YIMBYs argue cities can be made increasingly affordable and accessible by building more infill housing,[26][27][28]: 1  and that greenhouse gas emissions will be reduced by denser cities.[29]

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/YIMBY

  • Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    22
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    28 days ago

    The problem is that people say the latter as if it’s a solution on its own without also doing the former.

    To my knowledge absolutely no one saying “Ban landlords” is also saying “Don’t build any more housing.” But there are plenty of people who think that you can build housing, in an environment where rich landowners have the ability to buy up and hoard everything you build, and don’t comprehend that this in no way solves the problem.

    • Amadou_WhatIWant@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      27 days ago

      When you say “doing the former” what specifically do mean?

      Empirically, building more housing does lower the cost of rent. See Austin for an example. But yeah there is more that could be done for sure.

      • Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        27 days ago

        No to deporting immigrants. Yes to banning landlords. For everything else, see my original comment.

        And it’s not that building more housing doesn’t help, but on its own it will never be a solution.

        As long as housing is an investment, there has to be a housing crisis. Because if the price of housing isn’t on a constant upward trend then it no longer functions as an investment, and the only way to ensure that the price of housing constantly increases is for the supply to be insufficient to meet demand. No matter how much housing you build, wealthy investors will always ensure that it is insufficient to meet demand, because they’d be bad investors if they didn’t.

        • Amadou_WhatIWant@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          26 days ago

          As long as housing is an investment, there has to be a housing crisis.

          100% Agree

          I’m not sure how banning landlords works though. Like everybody has to own their own house? What about apartment buildings or people living somewhere for the short-term? Or are you think like where the government is the landlord for everybody - sort of like Vienna?

          • Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            26 days ago

            Let me clarify; I personally believe in banning the existence of private landlords.

            I would propose a housing model where rental housing is handled by regional Crown corporations (this is a specifically Canadian concept, but the model translates easily; its a not-for-profit company established by the government with a legal obligation to follow their founding charter, but with no other involvement in from the government, except potentially as a funding stream).

            These corporations would buy up available housing to meet rental demand, and rent at prices determined by an established formula, calculated not to exceed a set percentage of mean regional incomes. Access to in demand units would be handled via waiting lists.

            Renters would be given the option to buy out their homes (possibly with a rent to own program), and the corporations would have a mandate to build new supply which they would then sell on the market or rent out, as fits local needs. Some amount of supply would always be reserved for rentals, because there will always be a demand for rentals, even if housing is affordable (sometimes you’re only living somewhere for a short while). Its conceivable that some rental units would ineligible for buy out because of the importance of maintaining rental supply in that area.

            Standard disclaimer: This is not two hundred page policy paper, nor has it gone through the months of expert review and study that would precede the enactment of an actual policy like this. If your entire criticism is “Ah but you haven’t thought of tiny detail X” stop and ask yourself “Does this actually undermine the entire idea in a truly fundamental way, or is it just a detail of implementation?”

    • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      27 days ago

      I need you to learn about the California city of Berkeley, where it is illegal to build more housing because it might cast too much shade and disrupt your neighbor’s hobbyist tomato garden.

      You probably read that and thought I was exaggerating for effect. I am not.

  • iAvicenna@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    26 days ago
    • make it legal and easy to build housing
    • mega corps and russian oligarchs buy the houses and rent them to people
    • profit?
    • Bgugi@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      26 days ago

      …keep building legal and easy housing. Megacorps and oligarchs get crushed when the bubble pops underneath them.

      • RangerJosie@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        26 days ago

        Well, it’ll ding them. But the ones hurt worst will be those invested in the ponzi scheme that is the american retirement system.

        Like at my last job my tiny nothing of a 401k was invested in mortgage holdings. Had the bubble burst then all my money would be gone.

        “Marginal Utility” - $10,000 is a lot to me. Its not worth stooping over to pick up for a Blackrock Exec.

  • JordanfireStar@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    27 days ago

    Literally everyone agrees that more housing should be built and it shouldn’t be too hard to do so (just don’t sacrifice safety standards). However, simply building more housing isn’t enough. A lot of the housing built nowadays are built for the rich while there aren’t many small starter-homes being built. We need to do so much more than just building more homes, or else we risk the rich just buying them all up again.

    • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      25 days ago

      This is myopic thinking. We all live in one big housing market. If you don’t have enough houses built, it doesn’t provide housing for the working class. You just end up with multi-millionaires living in tiny homes.

      When you restrict the ability of builders to build new homes, they focus on maximizing the profit of the few homes they can make. We had cheap housing in the US in eras where we made it possible for builders to build vast numbers of housing on a colossal scale. That way you can really harness economies of scale and drive down the price tremendously.

      There are two ways to make money by making something. You can either make high-margin luxury goods, or you can make vast numbers of low-margin affordable goods. Our current restrictions on home buildings encourage developer to take the former path, when we want to encourage them to take the latter.

  • Red_October@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    28 days ago

    Even taking you at your word, just building more houses wouldn’t solve the problem unless the other existing issues are solved first. There are already more than enough houses, several times more unoccupied houses than there are homeless people in fact. If you just make it easier to build more, those new houses will just end up in the same situation as the existing lot: bought up by corporate groups as investments, held ransom by landlords, and generally NOT made available to consumers who want to buy a home.

    So yeah. You’re gonna see some pushback if you’re only making that second argument, all that will do is make the investor class richer without solving any problems.

    • Thrashy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      28 days ago

      True as it may be that there are more vacant homes than there are homeless people in America, the expression misses the forest for the trees. In many cases, those homes are vacant for a reason – they may be located in places like dying rural villages, or declining Rust Belt manufacturing towns where the local economy is severely depressed and there’s no work to be had for residents. They may also be severely dilapidated and unsafe to live in. Solving the housing crisis isn’t as simple as just assigning existing vacant homes to people who don’t have them – housing needs to be in the right place, and of decent quality, too, or else it’s not doing any good.

      • Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.worldOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        27 days ago

        Plus, it’s just a weird argument to be making that we should be just forcefully shipping homeless people out to Bumretch, Kentucky to live in a dilapidated shed. No jobs, no opportunities.

        The places where housing is needed are cities. The places with jobs and opportunities. And the cities that are most expensive are the ones with the absolute lowest vacancy rates.

        Additionally, why would we actually want zero vacancies? Vacancies are good for the average person. Vacancies mean you can shop for a new home or apartment without finding someone to swap units with you. Vacancies mean your landlord has a credible threat of vacancy if they demand too much in rent. Vacancies give power to renters and buyers. Why would any left-leaning person willingly – much less gleefully – take bargaining power away from renters and give it to landlords on a silver platter?

        At this point, I’m half-convinced this “vacancy truth” rhetoric the person you’re responding to is espousing is a psyop by landlords to protect their economic interests.

        • Thrashy@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          27 days ago

          I’m assuming that most of the people making these arguments (at least on Lemmy) are coming from the “from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs” point of view where they presuppose some sort of command economy scenario, with housing being a basic right provided by the state and work being an optional thing you can do if you want to.

          Which is all well and good, but we’re not in that society right now, and the suffering of the unhoused isn’t something that just goes on hold while we wait for the proletariat to rise up. There are solutions that we can implement now that will make things better, which work better than, I dunno, then the government eminent-domaining every derelict property in East Waynesvilleboro, Pennsyltucky, and shipping homeless people there en masse, away from family members and support systems.