• jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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    2 months ago

    The only reason they want a popular vote system is because it would have worked in their favor in 2000 and 2016.

    The minute it goes against “their” candidate they’ll scream to go back to the electoral college.

    See the multi-state pact here:

    https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation

    Currently passed in 17 states for 209 electoral college votes, it doesn’t take effect until there are 270 accounted for.

    But do you really think the residents of a state like Oregon, or Washington, or California will just be OK with their electoral college votes being passed to a popular vote winner who is a Republican?

    Especially if that person failed to win their state?

    • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      But do you really think the residents of a state like Oregon, or Washington, or California will just be OK with their electoral college votes being passed to a popular vote winner who is a Republican?

      Yes, because they won. People who favor democracy understand they won’t always be in the majority, and that’s OK bedause they aren’t shitbags. People who only want the system to work in their favor are called Conservatives.

      • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        This runs counter to the Lemmy narrative which says we need like 40 years of Democratic rule to unfuck the country.

      • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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        2 months ago

        You have more faith than I do. If Oregonians thought their vote was overturned because of a national popular vote winner, there would be riots.

        • monkinto@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Their vote wasn’t “overturned” their vote counted just as much as anyone else’s they just lost.

          • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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            2 months ago

            Under the multi-state pact, if Oregon voted overwhelmingly for Harris, but Trump won the national popular vote, and our electoral college votes were delivered to Trump because of the popular vote, yeah, that would be overturning the will of Oregon voters and there would be riots.

            • monkinto@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              So when one town votes for trump and Harris wins the state the votes of that town are “overturned” by the state then?

                • monkinto@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Really? I grew up in a red town in Massachusetts and I’ve literally never heard a single person talk about their vote like that ever, let alone suggest that the town should join another state.

                  • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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                    2 months ago

                    Welcome to Oregon!

                    Here’s the thing, the population centers, where people actually live, are super super blue.

                    The rest of the state is Trump country.

                    So every election, the people in Portland, Salem, Eugene, Corvallis, Bend and Newport call the shots. Everyone else feels disenfranchised because in those counties there are more square miles and cows than people.

        • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          You mean if they lost? How many riots have there been in Oregon when the candidate Oregon shows didn’t win the electoral college? Trump lost the popular vote in 2016, but we didn’t see riots in Oregon.

          That’s not your best argument against a national popular vote agreement. The best argument is that no national campaigns would give a shit about Oregon if the goal was winning the national popular vote. Oregon is a progressive coastal state, but it’s still a flyover state.

          In fact, states wouldn’t matter at all. State borders are just imaginary lines drawn around population centers. Campaigns would focus exclusively on demographics and high density population zones. Oregonians as a demographic would be considered “safe” for progressives and “lost” for conservatives, so neither side would give them much effort. California Republicans and Texas Democrats would be the big winners. States like New York and Florida would become the new battlegrounds, as candidates spoke to the concerns of the most people.

          And in a way, that would be much better. It would encourage more voters to actually show up, and local races would become more important. But with first past the post, winner take all national elections, you’ll still have two parties demonizing the other.

    • EndOfLine@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Is the suggestion here that the only people who support the electoral college are those who don’t want the president to represent the majority of the voting population?

      • bulwark@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I think the argument boils down to the same one that created both a Senate and House of Representatives, which is does the US have allegiance to it’s citizens or it’s States.

        • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Representation by population vs representation by area. The same kind of arguments made in favour of switching the U.S. to a fully proportional system (getting rid of all forms of representation by area) could equally be made in favour of having one world government with proportional representation.

          When we think about it that way (world elections would be dominated by Asia), it’s easy to see why we might not want such a system. Then, returning to the U.S. system alone it’s easier to see why many people want representation by area preserved. Although the cultural differences between states are much smaller than the differences between continents, they’re still very much present and the issues often dominate American politics.

      • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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        2 months ago

        No, the suggestion here is that the people supporting the popular vote are doing it because they got burned in 2000 and 2016.

        Had it gone the other way, they wouldn’t be agitating for it.

        If Trump somehow wins the popular vote, but loses the electoral college, WA, OR and CA will be THRILLED.

    • Gigasser@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      It would be nice to implement stuff like one of the voting systems under the broader ranked choice voting umbrella first before getting rid of the electoral college.