Heading into the November presidential election, one of the biggest issues on voters' minds is the economy. According to a new poll, 73% of Americans say strengthening it is their top concern.
So there’s a pretty concerted effort to make “the economy is actually getting better” stories sound untrue with some particular talking points - it’s actually really effective. Here are some of the big ones. You can see why they work.
Replying to “the economy is getting better” with “how DARE you say the economy is good and all the problems are fixed, clearly that’s not the case” as a way of reframing away from the conversation of whether things are getting better, or worse, and why that is. Basically interfering with the effort to understand the policies that help or hurt by simply asserting that everything’s bad, so nothing being talked about can possibly be a good thing.
Saying “well I’m not doing okay, how dare you say I’m not struggling” and getting all fucked up and angry about it, so that anyone that tells you that millions of low-income workers are making more now than they were a few years ago, like way more, and that’s a good thing, looks like an asshole
Bringing up that the CPI excludes some categories, and implying that if it did include them, it would show more inflation than what it does (including the pretty significant spike in 2022). This one is actually a really clever subterfuge, because of how complicated it gets to explain why it is wrong (whereas if you just say “CPI doesn’t include housing costs” or whatever, people can grasp that instantly and make the connection and assume that housing costs would change the value if they were included).
Saying “well who cares about the stock market, I just know I’m struggling” when no one said anything about the stock market or the rich-person economy metrics, and everyone’s talking about inflation-adjusted wages and nothing about the stock market
They’re all tricks. There are more but those are some of the main ones
And you see the same 4 or 5 of them, over and over again, if you start looking
You’ll see some of them in comments nearby to this one, I guarantee it
Edit: More
Insisting that when cumulative inflation is 20%, and 10th percentile wages have gone up 32%, wages aren’t keeping up with inflation, simply because you insist that they aren’t. If anyone tries to say numbers, just say they don’t count.
Focus on the 20% inflation, because it feels real. People can see it in grocery prices, it’s tangible. It rings true. The wage growth is mostly at the low end (truck drivers, housekeepers, manufacturing) where most Lemmy users can’t see it, and even when someone’s wage has gone up, it’s easy to decide it happened because of some other factor, whereas $7 for a carton of eggs is right there in your face and memorable. And universal.
What are these “tricks” for? Millions of us out here are struggling. “But you’re earning more money!”… Ok, a dollar more? While everything else has gone up including rent with a near 40% increase in the last few years in some places.
To just be so dismissive of those barely surviving sounds like you’re coming from a place of privilege.
Insisting that when cumulative inflation is 20%, and 10th percentile wages have gone up 32%, wages aren’t keeping up with inflation, simply because you insist that they aren’t. If anyone tries to say numbers, just say they don’t count.
Focus on the 20% inflation, because it feels real. People can see it in grocery prices, it’s tangible. It rings true. The wage growth is mostly at the low end (truck drivers, housekeepers, manufacturing) where most Lemmy users can’t see it, and even when someone’s wage has gone up, it’s easy to decide it happened because of some other factor, whereas $7 for a carton of eggs is right there in your face and memorable. And universal.
This is also a little bit of the getting angry or fucked up tactic, too. See? I look like an asshole now, with all my numbers.
Just making up a number of 40% inflation I haven’t seen before. I don’t think that’s common enough to warrant an entry of its own. Want to show me where you got 40% from?
Got it. So, back in November of 2021, someone wrote a story with a clickbaity headline about 40% rent increase in the future from back then, and now to you that’s reality you are citing to me. Great stuff.
Anyway, here’s the actual numbers. The median rent went from $1,102 to $1,340 in those 3 years - 21.5% cumulatively. That’s what happened. So someone who’s low income who’s making 32% more comes out ahead. Does that mean that can afford their rent, when it’s $1,700 because they’re in a metro area and they make $16/hr? Fuckin A, man, maybe not. I’m being an asshole to you in this conversation a little bit, just because I know that you’re deliberately twisting things to make Biden look as bad as possible (as confirmed by you which was what got you temp banned already). But I’m not trying to be unsympathetic to someone who’s actually struggling and being honest about how they’re struggling.
But maybe we should keep doing more of the stuff that gave them the 32% increase, and in a few years they’ll be able to afford the $1,700 or whatever it is by then. Right? Or not? What would your solution be, instead, if not that?
I think you’re out of touch on the dire situation Mozz. You can throw statistics and numbers around but for millions of the working class, they’ve never struggled as much as they are currently.
Eight of the top 10 metro areas are in the Sun Belt region. Rents in each of these metros have increased over 37% since 2019.
I don’t want to play the debunking game all night. I read your link, and here’s their rent increases:
Rent in the area went from $582 to $907, or a 55.8% increase.
Rent for 1-bedroom apartments increased 49.5% from $646 to $966 from 2019 to 2024.
And so on. It looks like they sorted every metro area in the US by percentage increase, which yields a whole bunch of individual metro areas with oddball markets where some super-cheap pandemic pricing ended and so the percent increase in places where it had been $582 for a 1 bedroom apartment during the pandemic, was pretty high. That doesn’t mean the price of housing in general went up by that same high percent.
Like I say, someone who’s actually struggling, I have sympathy for. You, I don’t, because you’re just out here lying with statistics to try to hurt the people you are claiming to have all this sympathy with.
Replying to “the economy is getting better” with “how DARE you say the economy is good and all the problems are fixed, clearly that’s not the case” as a way of reframing away from the conversation of whether things are getting better, or worse, and why that is. Basically interfering with the effort to understand the policies that help or hurt by simply asserting that everything’s bad, so nothing being talked about can possibly be a good thing.
Let’s see if we can get through literally all of the bullet points if you want to keep the conversation going long enough; we have 3 so far I think
It’ll be an easy way to get your hours in at least
So there’s a pretty concerted effort to make “the economy is actually getting better” stories sound untrue with some particular talking points - it’s actually really effective. Here are some of the big ones. You can see why they work.
They’re all tricks. There are more but those are some of the main ones
And you see the same 4 or 5 of them, over and over again, if you start looking
You’ll see some of them in comments nearby to this one, I guarantee it
Edit: More
What are these “tricks” for? Millions of us out here are struggling. “But you’re earning more money!”… Ok, a dollar more? While everything else has gone up including rent with a near 40% increase in the last few years in some places.
To just be so dismissive of those barely surviving sounds like you’re coming from a place of privilege.
You’re right, I missed a couple
This is also a little bit of the getting angry or fucked up tactic, too. See? I look like an asshole now, with all my numbers.
Just making up a number of 40% inflation I haven’t seen before. I don’t think that’s common enough to warrant an entry of its own. Want to show me where you got 40% from?
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/01/rents-are-bouncing-back-what-to-do-if-you-expect-a-big-increase-.html
Got it. So, back in November of 2021, someone wrote a story with a clickbaity headline about 40% rent increase in the future from back then, and now to you that’s reality you are citing to me. Great stuff.
Anyway, here’s the actual numbers. The median rent went from $1,102 to $1,340 in those 3 years - 21.5% cumulatively. That’s what happened. So someone who’s low income who’s making 32% more comes out ahead. Does that mean that can afford their rent, when it’s $1,700 because they’re in a metro area and they make $16/hr? Fuckin A, man, maybe not. I’m being an asshole to you in this conversation a little bit, just because I know that you’re deliberately twisting things to make Biden look as bad as possible (as confirmed by you which was what got you temp banned already). But I’m not trying to be unsympathetic to someone who’s actually struggling and being honest about how they’re struggling.
But maybe we should keep doing more of the stuff that gave them the 32% increase, and in a few years they’ll be able to afford the $1,700 or whatever it is by then. Right? Or not? What would your solution be, instead, if not that?
I think you’re out of touch on the dire situation Mozz. You can throw statistics and numbers around but for millions of the working class, they’ve never struggled as much as they are currently.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/12/metro-areas-with-the-biggest-one-bedroom-rent-increase-since-2019.html
I don’t want to play the debunking game all night. I read your link, and here’s their rent increases:
And so on. It looks like they sorted every metro area in the US by percentage increase, which yields a whole bunch of individual metro areas with oddball markets where some super-cheap pandemic pricing ended and so the percent increase in places where it had been $582 for a 1 bedroom apartment during the pandemic, was pretty high. That doesn’t mean the price of housing in general went up by that same high percent.
Like I say, someone who’s actually struggling, I have sympathy for. You, I don’t, because you’re just out here lying with statistics to try to hurt the people you are claiming to have all this sympathy with.
Bruh. Everybody is struggling, wake up…
Let’s see if we can get through literally all of the bullet points if you want to keep the conversation going long enough; we have 3 so far I think
It’ll be an easy way to get your hours in at least