I can’t use them because I can’t convince anybody to switch with me. I talk to most people on discord and I’d rather move to using Matrix, but I can’t convince any of my friends or family or anyone I know to use anything else.
“I could add you to our group chat. Do you have Signal?” Just that. No questions asked. No convincing to anything. Either “Yes” or “Let me just download”. Surprised honestly how many people either have it already or at least know it. Obviously might not work if you ever talk to the person 1-1, but starting a group chat only takes 2 people 😉
I think there is always someone who is more willing to try it, so you start from them. Like a a techy friend or a parent who doesn’t really care as long as they talk to their child. Then you can proceed by complaining to your social circle about the bad quality of the apps you currently use (like messenger). Someone will be convinced eventually. I recommend you go with signal though since element (x) apps are still not ready for
commercialevery day use.I don’t think OP is trying to run a business.
I think I used the word commercial wrong xd
Nope. I’ve given up trying to nudge people in, what we deam, the «right» direction.
If they don’t see any problem in giving away their privacy for convenience, then that’s their prerogative.
Hell, I am still unable to de-google completely myself.Considering setting up a Matrix server for when Discord goes full entshitification. Maybe some will join then.
Putting up a synapse server in the public cloud and building bridges to the apps people use. At least I get my messaging in one place
I plead the fifth officer
I’m running several opensource alternatives for clients (rocketchat, prosody, matrix) and I’ve transitioned privately from telegram and XMPP to matrix. the pushback from users is immense, they find every possible reason and excuse to stick with the messengers they’re used to and use “the new stuff” for the bare minimum.
privately it’s
easyeasier, that’s the only way you can get ahold of me, so if you need/want me, that’s where I am at. for a short while tried to make it work with signal, but a) the phone number thing is a deal breaker (usernames get me only halfway there) and b) I switch and use multiple devices often and that thing is downright hostile towards people who own/use > 2 devices.bear in mind, I’m in a dictatorial position. they have to do what I say and even with that, it’s an uphill battle. it doesn’t help that the stuff they’re now forced to use has subpar to downright dogshit UX.
the new, shiny, superawesome, superfast element x… is crap. I thought Signal was crap - this is another level. I don’t mean for me, it’s crap from the point of casual users, they are coming from the super polished world of telegram and imessage and twitter and friends and everything about this is off-putting. a lot of them need help setting this up, especially if it’s a multi-device scenario.
the immediate future looks bleak and I don’t see an important development on the horizon that would change any of this. but, that’s how telegram spread, early adopters switching to it and promoting it and dragging normies along. let’s hope for a repeat.
I use XMPP whenever possible. Requires many fewer resources to run on just about any hardware & I can hand out accounts if needed.
I don’t care for the centralized or de facto centralized alternatives. I regret along with my uncle convincing family onto Signal several years ago.
Why do you regret convincing your family to use signal? Is it because you wish you got them to use xmpp instead?
I would like to lose the Android phone soon. Signal will not work without an Android/iOS primary device.
But also… Signal requires a phone number for signup where a lot of countries require a passport to get a SIM (unique identifier that is easy to track you). The service is centralized so there is no sort of self-hosting option. There really aren’t alternative clients (not counting mere forks) you can rely on (this helps with the double ratchet encryption of clients with XMPP & Matrix losing keys) unless you go the gateway/bridge route—where the Electron desktop client is pure ass cheeks. Historically they have a big gap in commit history—we can assume there was some sort of CIA/FBI plant. They refuse to use a self-hostable MQTT/XMPP/UnifiedPush option for notifications meaning that the notification data timestamps always flow thru Google & Apple servers. And I am still salty the mobile clients removed SMS support which made it so easy to recommend to family in the first place.
I just told everybody that I only reply on Threema and don’t use anything else.
My thought process was - if they can’t be arsed to use another app (which is an extremely effortless task to do) then they are probably not worth staying in contact with.
The 3 people that were most important in my life at that point got the app immediately.
After over a decade with threema I now have over 40 contacts there, mostly friends, some colleagues, multiple hobby centric groups etc.
I guess just start and don’t compromise and be patient
I just told everybody that I only reply on Threema
if they can’t be arsed to use another app (which is an extremely effortless task to do) then they are probably not worth staying in contact with
So if someone said you have to use their messagee of choice - Signal, Whatsapp, Matrix, FB Messager, Discord - you’d have no problem meeting them there because it’s effortless, yeah?
You left out two important real world aspects from your thought experiment.
-
one person cares about a specific aspect of the messenger - privacy - and the other doesn’t care, they are just on whatever their peers told them to be on. So if their messenger happens to have the aspect I care about I’ll do it. Since they don’t have any such criteria I expect them to do it as well.
-
If that person is important enough for me and doesn’t budge I’ll call or E-Mail them. Which is less private than an e2ee messenger, but more private than data harvesting companies.
Exactly this. I use Signal for people close to me and SMS or Email for those who don’t use signal, who I don’t have coversations with often anyways. Dispite it’s many, many flaws, I will use SMS before I use a Meta messenger.
-
We use it at work, or rather I use it to text people at work I like.
Working with info sec people helps. But I explained it and had them read about it and we all got on board.
All you really can do is explain that text (sms) isn’t secure and that Signal is. And let people know you want to use it. But yes I wouldn’t try and force it that generally just annoys people.
When a colleague or new friend asks me to exchange contacts, I offer them the option to be part of my “main phone club” by getting Signal, Wire, or Element/Matrix.
I have a separate phone to handle SMS and Whatsapp. That covers 99% of cases, if they want something esoteric like Instagram/Snapchat/iMessage, then that’s too bad. I’ll turn off Airplane mode and check this secondary phone when I’m seated and comfortable like during my lunch break or when I get home. If, say, Johnny is running an event and needs me to text back whenever from 10 to 12, then I’ll generally leave my phone on for that time period. If there’s something sensitive but not particularly urgent, I’ll save it for the next time we meet in person.
If someone wants to message me at any random time of the day without prior notice and have a quick response back, they’ll have to join my main phone club.
I won’t use anything other popular other than signal. There are some other cool apps like simplex behind for but I keep that for my enthusiasts out there.
People who don’t want to keep in touch and still use WhatsApp despite WhatsApp using the signal protocol make me wonder how much they want to keep in touch with me and how much they understand their tools and devices.
I also wonder what other bullshit apps they use as well but won’t install signal.
Luckily I have friends and family who indeed do want to stay in touch and who also recognize the implications of using questionable software. I keep them close.
I started donating to signal and told the family that they have to use it now otherwise it would be waste of money. And everyone switched immediately.
it takes some time but people get on signal when you explain it’s advantages over whatsApp.
i had only one contact on signal when i started using it. Now almost all my contacts are on it.
it helps if people care about you and rather die than write an email 🙃
Use whatever you use now less and less and when they ask why u late just claim ur discord app was bugging or u were “talking to ur friends” on element.
Signal is my preference. I am not going to go around proselytizing to people about it, though. I typically respond and use text as readily. It’s not my job change people. I just change what I’m willing to say openly on any other platform.
