Veteran here. If it’s any consolation, basic training included a fairly lengthy course (well… relative to the other shit they teach there at least) about how to identify and what to do when given unlawful orders. Lots of emphasis on DO NOT FUCKING FOLLOW THEM. Lots of emphasis on the Nuremberg trials / if your defense is “just followed orders…” then you’re fucked. They talked about people like Hugh Thompson Jr. and the severe back pain he sustained from lugging around those massive balls.
The military does NOT want to become Nazis or stormtroopers. If Trump plays the whole ‘execute order 66’ card, military leadership will tell him to suck a dick.
It’s the cops I’m worried about. And the neonazi civilians responding to Trump’s stochastic terrorism.
What if I told you, there are PLENTY of soldiers in every branch ready and waiting to betray any oath for daddy trump. They went through the same classes you did and just nodded along to get through it. Now they’re trained, and ready to fill the void when Trump fires or demotes anyone who refuses his orders.
And what if I told you that there’s also plenty of soldiers that will uphold the constitution and will be ready to fight for it.
They better get ready for a fight because it’s coming. they will have to decide if they will just resign in protest or if they will fight. How many will actually fight? Who knows. Nearly everyone I know personally in the military, has said many times “it’s just a job”
The military is majority conservative especially enlisted. If officers try to keep things under control Der Fuhrer could just strip them of their commissions and give them to anyone he wants to. Especially if his people run congress.
I don’t think you understand the command structure of the US Armed forces.
Congress and the president issue all officer commissions and warrants for warrant officers respectively. Who can stop them from revoking them if they so choose?
That is absolutely not how that works. Also while they’re conservative, they are not fans of Trump. The active duty military voted blue in 2020.
And what did they vote for this time?
I’m not actually seeing a similar poll for 2024. They did do including veterans which is roughly 60/40. Regardless, if he treats the military the same way he did last time then any advantage among active duty troops will not last.
I hope you’re right even though a ton of members of the groups of people he has disparaged voted for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if the armed forces are among them.
That would require massive and obvious reorganizations of the military. It would also effectively hollow out the officer corps with so many of them refusing an illegal reorganization. (The organization at the high levels is set by law)
It’s far more likely Trump will take volunteer veterans into the DOJ, give them a badge, and run it like a military unit with all of the equipment and none of the accountability. It’s easier, faster, and legal.
I keep saying this again and again. Being set by law, does not fucking matter now. Being illegal, does not matter now. They will MAKE IT legal, or they will hand wave the illegality.
Sure, great, but the military isn’t about to hand waive anything. They will send the MPs to arrest soldiers for desertion. They will process people out of the military for following illegal orders.
They aren’t robots and they have decades of experience in slow walking stuff, malicious compliance, and straight up refusing illegal orders. There isn’t just one officer to fire either. It would take them years to build a military willing to be used against the American people.
They can have a DOJ task force up and running in a month. They can be recruiting veterans in 2 months. They can use the surplus system to transfer armored vehicles to the DOJ in about 6 months if someone is dragging their heels. And the military is actually in the middle of getting shiny new armored vehicles so seeing M113 APCs showing up on the surplus list isn’t even going to raise eyebrows.
I sincerely hope they smash their heads against the military for another 4 years. But by the end of his last term they figured out they could use a DOJ task force to beat up and abduct protestors. Just adding surplus military equipment and Trump cultists to that isn’t going to be hard to figure out. Stop trying to put the military in a hole it’s not going to easily fit into and start looking at what’s actually likely.
You’re absolutely correct.
Rank and file grunts may be gargling nazi balls, but the officer pool are often college educated and will not hand over America to a dictatorship. It’ll take a decade just to fire all the officers who won’t follow his illegal orders. Another decade to reform into a stazi.
The secret police will be local police forces organized under a Fed Dept probably Homeland or ICE.
They don’t have to make it legal.
Trump will pardon anyone he feels like. They can also just fail to prosecute or let cases against perpetrators just die in legal limbo.
Uphold the constitution? Great- they’ll pass an ammendment.
Officers in every branch are also trained to protect their people and be transparent with leadership about their limitations. Remember Captain Crozier?
Anyone who’s in long enough and is politically savvy enough to get stars, stopped caring about that stuff a long time ago.
Give the military time. Good people will get tired or will retire. No one wants to have to fight this much.
Except the military is trained to… y’know fight and defend the constitution.
You’ve never met an e-4 with the regulations on their side. They will professionally become a rock and hate-love every second of it.
They can force people to take the classes, but they can’t force them to agree with them. I’m glad they go over this, but they should probably test people on this stuff without warning them it’s a drill and see how they actually respond.
The thing is, they do…at least when I went through basic, they’d be PTing me, screaming at me, asking all sorts of questions to see if I know and understand and can perform under pressure.
No worries, with project 2025, anyone not completely loyal to Trump or a minority will be retired in order make the military great again!
After which the military will be so ineffective we won’t need to worry about it.
That’s too optimistic. Some of Trump’s biggest supporters have been Generals like Flynn, Mattis, and Kelly. They just changed their tune after he fired them.
The Joint Chiefs literally yelled at him last time, in the oval office, like he was a private.
And he now has the ability to replace them.
He had that technical ability last time too.
Last time he had to get reelected. This time he has nothing to lose making him more dangerous than ever. We accomplish nothing by downplaying the danger he represents to make ourselves feel better.
If you check my other reply, I’m under no such burden. I fully expect him to take it farther, and faster.
He should have been arrested last time. Now we have to hope a soldier or officer has enough of a spine to destroy his career by so much as telling the Cheeto in Chief “no.”
Like when he orders the execution of Mark Milley? It will perhaps be one of the most significant moments in US history where we either stay the US or become Turkey.
stay the US or become Turkey
You still think the US is better then Turkey in any way? I would rather live in Turkey to be honest. Better food.
Changes made to dod policy in September allows him to use the military domestically upon request of local police force.
No. Just no. That’s been completely blown out of proportion. It’s a reissue of a decades old memo to update intelligence sharing. It’s for groups like the Defense Intelligence Agency.
Which specifically says local police can request us military assistance
In regards to intelligence sharing. You can’t write a memo to invalidate a law.
© Assistance in responding with assets with potential for lethality, or any situation in which it is reasonably foreseeable that providing the requested assistance may involve the use of force that is likely to result in lethal force, including death or serious bodily injury. It also includes all support to civilian law enforcement officials in situations where a confrontation between civilian law enforcement and civilian individuals or groups is reasonably anticipated. Such use of force must be in accordance with DoDD 5210.56, potentially as further restricted based on the specifics of the requested support.
Thats not a memo
Sorry, a “directive”. Same difference, same problem.
That’s why he wants Hitler’s generals instead. Much more suited to his style of governance.
I hope the generals succeed in their attempts this time.
Ignore them
You record it and impeach him
Because that’ll work in a Republican controlled House and Senate. I’m sure they’ll get right on drawing up articles of impeachment.
Understand that when your goal is blocking things, you somstimes do things you know will almost certainly fail. Republicans have used this playbook for ages to block the Democratic party
Make them get tied up in as many pointless tasks to distract them from their other goals. Sometimes you’ll even occasionally win a long shot challange
Then we just get fukt
With what congress?
Came in late just to add what others have been saying I see. Please read the whole thread before you retread it.
Thank fucking god
