• peopleproblems@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    You know what? Instead of just down voting you, imma explain. You highlighted exactly why people do not understand abuse.

    Sure, leaving your abuser is the obvious answer. But the ability to leave your abuser is much more complex. If you were being savagely beat, but if you left your child starts to get beat, and they have restricted access to your child, how do you leave then?

    Do you think victims want to keep being abused? No. Many times they can’t find an escape because so many things are controlled by there abuser. Money, communication, social lives, health. People dont leave countries for the exact same reasons. A lot of us know one language, and do not have enough time to learn another. What about those of us who have to take medication daily? How am I supposed to get that medication across the border and find a doctor to prescribe it. Hell, how do I even know if the medicine I take is available in that country? Research it? Can’t. Don’t have the time.

    Critical thinking requires you to test aspects supporting and dissenting from your original understanding. Instead of “why x reasons won’t prevent you” in this scenario, find a single reason that could.

    I can guarantee you that there is a long complex list of reasons why people are unable to leave the abuser just like they are unable to leave a country.

    • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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      1 month ago

      “Sure, leaving your abuser is the obvious answer. But the ability to leave your abuser is much more complex.”

      I didn’t say it was the obvious answer, you did.

      I said it was the savvy alternative.

      I also didn’t say it was easy.

      but I understand why you got confused, lots of people make the same assumptions you have.

      as for your travel questions:

      “What about those of us who have to take medication daily?”

      you go to a hospital or pharmacy and get the medication.

      If you are lucky enough to speak English, you’ll have no trouble with this.

      “How am I supposed to get that medication across the border and find a doctor to prescribe it?”

      I would get the medication locally, but if you want or need to take it with you:

      to get the medication across a border, fill out a small index card stating the medication and its purpose.

      If you want the doctor to prescribe it, if that is necessary, you go to a hospital or a pharmacy.

      “how do I even know if the medicine I take is available in that country?”

      If it is available in your country, it is available in other countries.

      “Don’t have the time.”

      then you don’t have this non-problem you are hoping is an issue.

      people who need medication have the time to get the proper medication, which is usually much cheaper and easier to do in other countries because most countries have working health care systems.

      “Critical thinking requires you to test aspects supporting and dissenting from your original understanding.”

      your misunderstanding of alternative = risk is a very common fear-based symptom of hermetic monocultures.

      mint ice cream is an alternative to strawberry ice cream.

      that does not make mint ice cream significantly more risky or dangerous than strawberry ice cream, it is simply an alternative that functions the same way.

      • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        So now we’re starting down the road of throwing out logical fallacies to support your argument? Why don’t you just go do something else. Arguing with people here with long winded responses isn’t going to sway anybody anyway.

        • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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          1 month ago

          “So now we’re starting down the road of throwing out logical fallacies”

          I don’t mind If you’re going to try fallacies next, but they probably aren’t going to fare much better than your previous illogical reasoning, which didn’t exactly pan out for you.

          “Why don’t you just go do something else.”

          I’m washing clothes right now.

          you’re my down time.

          “Arguing with people here with long winded responses isn’t going to sway anybody anyway.”

          I’ve had the opposite experience.

          although it is funny that you ostensibly think that while simultaneously keeping the conversation going.

      • Hazor@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        If you want the doctor to prescribe it, if that is necessary, you go to a hospital or a pharmacy.

        You can just walk into any hospital and a doctor will have time to see you and prescribe a medication for you? Or you can just walk into any pharmacy and get a medication without a prescription? Forgive me if I’m skeptical. What country are you describing?

        If it is available in your country, it is available in other countries.

        While this is generally true, it is not universally true for all medications. Where a specific medication is not available there generally will be similar/suitable alternatives (at least, in a country with a developed healthcare system), but a lay person won’t know what those are and will require professional guidance, meaning finding a doctor and waiting for an appointment. During which time you may well run out of your medication.

        people who need medication have the time to get the proper medication, […]

        This take suggests a lack of perspective on chronic/debilitating illnesses as well as poverty. I hope you never have to experience either. I don’t know about wherever you’re from, but in the US it is not uncommon for people to have to work 2-3 jobs just to survive and taking time off for going to a doctor and pharmacy could mean the difference on making enough to pay rent this month. Even if taking time off is a real option, for people struggling to secure basic survival needs (i.e. food/shelter), it leaves little cognitive space for more abstract/complex concerns. It may be conceptually simple to obtain healthcare, but in practice it can be anything but simple even if the healthcare system itself isn’t broken. I am fortunate enough to make a living with only one job but I work the same hours that most doctors’ offices are open, which means taking time off work every time I or my offspring require care, which can quickly eat through paid leave time and isn’t exactly conducive to success in America’s abusive work culture.

        Healthcare in whereever you are from may well be more functional than in the US, but I really can’t fathom that it’s as trivial as you imply for someone who requires medications or other ongoing treatment to simply arrive and get the care they need without potentially problematic delay.

        • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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          1 month ago

          “You can just walk into any hospital and a doctor will have time to see you and prescribe a medication for you?”

          yes.

          “you can just walk into any pharmacy and get a medication without a prescription?”

          depends on the medication.

          but mostly, yes.

          I can’t think of a legitimate health scenario where the answer is no.

          “Forgive me if I’m skeptical.”

          forgiven.

          I’ve heard these questions a hundred times.

          If you’re haven’t traveled, you equate everything to the US, although things like the healthcare system abroad are meant to serve people rather than corporations so they function a lot differently than you’re used to.

          “What country are you describing?”

          most of Western Europe and most of Asia (I can only speak to the countries I’ve been to), and I know someone who lives exclusively in the Balkans who says all the countries there are the same as well.

          “While this is generally true, it is not universally true for all medications.”

          it’s universally true as far as I’m aware and have experienced.

          you might not have the same brand, but it’ll be the same medication except readily available and cheaper.

          “a lay person won’t know what those are and will require professional guidance”

          yea, I assume it’s the same in your country? where some medications should be prescribed or recommended by a doctor?

          “finding a doctor and waiting for an appointment.”

          Google and maybe sitting down and playing on your phone for a half hour is a lot easier than you’re making it out to be.

          “During which time you may well run out of your medication.”

          how?

          I can’t imagine this scenario happening.

          Unless you’re talking about something you have to take hourly and you brought one pill with you so you’ll be without medication for 30 minutes?

          these are such unlikely possibilities.

          I’ve known known an uncountable number of travelers for the past decade, many of whom take medication, zero of which have ever complained of not being able to find their particular medication.

          not once.

          I hear “geez did you know X is only like three bucks here? It’s like $80 a bottle in the states!”

          “This take suggests a lack of perspective on chronic/debilitating illnesses as well as poverty.”

          couldn’t be less correct.

          your doubt on what I’m saying simply demonstrates your ignorance.

          I’m not using “ignorance” as a pejorative term, I mean that you literally don’t know what you are talking about.

          chronic debilitating illnesses and poverty are characterized by financial trouble.

          traveling takes away financial stressors.

          I have known many retirees and chronically ill people who have regaled me with tales of how easy it is to retire in Vietnam/Germany/Portugal/Laos and so on because they don’t have to worry about the cost of medication.

          financial anxiety isn’t completely determining their life.

          “it leaves little cognitive space for more abstract/complex concerns.”

          Yes, this was my original point.

          If you don’t have any savings, if you’re a month away from living on the street, if you have healthcare needs, and these financial stressors are determining your life, traveling can fix that almost instantly.

          then you can save up money, make a plan and go back to whatever you want to do.

          but at the very least you’ll have breathing room, and what’s most likely is you’ll discover that traveling is way better than struggling in the US and you’ll keep traveling.

          “…isn’t exactly conducive to success in America’s abusive work culture.”

          yep, America’s work culture sucks.

          most other countries have siestas and employee rights.

          and are focused on draining you financially. every second you’re awake

          Plus, if you’re outside of the US for more than 330 days out of the year, you fill out the FEIE, an IRS tax form, and you don’t pay income tax up to $120,000 per year.

          “I really can’t fathom that it’s as trivial as you imply for someone who requires medications or other ongoing treatment to simply arrive and get the care they need without potentially problematic delay.”

          That’s because you haven’t done it yet(and I never said it was trivial).

          It’s difficult to fathom something you’ve never experienced.

          especially when you’re living in the worst existing iteration of functional health care infrastructure.

          you’ve grown up with excruciating waits and debilitating, financially disastrous healthcare your whole life, and you are surrounded by people who think the same thing and think it’s normal, so thinking about health care at all puts you in the mindset of excruciating waits, debilitating, financially disastrous, healthcare.

          That’s mostly a US specialty.

          ask anyone who has traveled for any length of time and they will tell you exactly what I’m telling you.

          I’m very happy to answer these questions and will answer any other questions you have.