- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
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Consensus candidate gives consensus answer on question that can only hurt her with the election weeks away.
That’s all there is to it. This is just not something we’re going to see her real thoughts on until after the election.
You have to wonder if these folks have their own thoughts about it. Or if their thoughts are entirely about what our thoughts are, and how our thoughts about them will be affected by their thoughts about what our thoughts are.
If your talking about politicians then they certainly do. But their actions on something are generally colored by more than their own thoughts. Every successful politician masters the art of not giving answers that can only hurt them. One of the ways you can tell something has shifted is when they suddenly become very specific. Like when Biden was trying to drum up support after his debate. We suddenly got some really specific policy proposals.
Oh, I think we know what those thoughts are going to be.
I don’t care to go back and find all the transcripts but the way she’s talked about it does make me think she’s better than Biden. I don’t think she’s going to abandon Israel as an ally or anything but I do think she’ll force the proper distribution of aid and put a stop to settlers in the West Bank and Gaza. Biden is on track to watch as the Israelis run over all of Palestine in the next few years.
The US is currently aiding and abetting Israel’s genocide. If the Democrats switch course, like many Democratic voters want, it would significantly improve Harris’ support nationally, especially in swing states. The majority of voters, and a vast majority of Democratic voters, want a change in policy on Israel. Harris pivoting from Biden on this issue would significantly help her, not hurt her, when it comes to voters and voter turnout
Amnesty
In a new research briefing submitted to the U.S. government today as part of the National Security Memorandum on Safeguards and Accountability with Respect to Transferred Defense Articles and Defense Services (NSM-20) process, Amnesty International USA details civilian deaths and injuries with U.S.-made weapons, as well as other cases that highlight an overall pattern of unlawful attacks by Israeli forces. The briefing also details practices by Israeli forces inconsistent with best practices for mitigating civilian harm and provides clear examples of the misuse of defense articles, the commission of torture, and the use of unlawful lethal force. Lastly, the briefing also details the denial of humanitarian assistance to the civilian population of Gaza.
“It’s shocking that the Biden administration continues to hold that the government of Israel is not violating international humanitarian law with U.S.-provided weapons when our research shows otherwise and international law experts disagree,” said Amanda Klasing, National Director for Government Relations with Amnesty International USA. “The International Court of Justice found the risk of genocide in Gaza is plausible and ordered provisional measures. President Biden must end U.S. complicity with the government of Israel’s grave violations of international law and immediately suspend the transfer of weapons to the government of Israel.”
“The evidence is clear and overwhelming: the government of Israel is using U.S.-made weapons in violation of international humanitarian and human rights law, and in a manner that is inconsistent with U.S. law and policy, said Klasing. “In order to follow U.S. laws and policies, the United States must immediately suspend any transfer of arms to the government of Israel.”
Polls:
I haven’t checked the veracity of reports like this, but I’ve heard this and it makes me think her vagueness has got to do with $$$, not votes.
Unfortunately, I think you’re right. As wrong as that is. Nothing makes my skin crawl like profiting off a genocide
This took like 2 days to blow up. Wow. At any rate here’s some points.
A. Harris isn’t the one sending weapons. The VP in the US is largely powerless unless the President gives them something to do. Interestingly there’s a possibility her remarks earlier this year were meant to put pressure on Biden. (the ones where she seemed almost to take the Palestinians side) But it could also have been stuff she was sent to say to try and calm tensions.
B. The polling data supports her messaging strategy. At this point she is clearly courting conservatives who don’t like Trump. So her messaging strategy of, need a ceasefire/Israel has a right, is meant to not rock the boat.
This is why I call her a consensus candidate. I know that term gets used a lot to tar the democratic nominee the primary selects, but she is literally a consensus candidate. Blue dogs and moderates agreed to back her without a primary. She and her campaign team obviously believe she will lose more votes than she gains if she breaks that messaging line. The polling you supplied supports that younger and more left democrats want to see movement. But it doesn’t support that swing state voters won’t vote for her. The part that’s worst is that in Pennsylvania the line dips precipitously on exactly what they feel they need. This is why the White House has weekly messaging on having a cease fire and why they always blame Hamas for it failing. That’s the big thing people want.
For what it’s worth I want to see that movement too. I just don’t expect anything until after the election unless something big changes again. You’d think an American citizen being killed by a called shot while unarmed would do it but apparently not.
Edit to add, I forgot to add the reason PA is so important is up until a couple weeks ago it was the only state that mattered. Trump was seen as having sewn up enough other states that he only needed PA to win. So that has highly influenced the race. In a nutshell it doesn’t matter what the uncommitted movement in the Rust Belt says because without PA they don’t even get counted. Now of course the race has opened up but there’s no telling if that’s because of her strategy or if it was always going to open up.
Harris has not deviated her position compared to Biden’s current policy and I absolutely disagree with how you interpreted those polls. I think it’s much more about the sentiment of the donors than the voters that are influencing Harris’s position on this. I also stand on the notion that trying to court Republican voters by running away from the progressive base of the Democratic voters, is a bad idea politically and morally. That said, I do respect your opinion, Maggoty
I’ll edit this with info from the polls if I have time later
Oh the donors are certainly part of it. I don’t want to discount that. It’s just hard for me to write long form and get everything in. Her messaging trajectory though has been interesting. She did actually diverge this past spring, very softly. But over the summer as calls for Biden to step down intensified she started toeing the line.
Call me insensitive, but shouldn’t we be more worried about the terrorists on our home soil before fighting foreign lands. As in, every idiot who thought Jan 6 was a good idea. Because I can already picture the unhappy voters reaction whether Dems or MAGA wins.
2 have been fired at Trump, and they’re investigating for Kamala.
And the worst part is: I STILL don’t know who the bad guy is. Israel? Palestine? How should I know, I can barely process the legislation and corruption that was alllowed to pass on our home soil.
Anyway I hope to become more informed on this issue now, seeing as our leader HAS to know a solution. Even though one candidate shouldn’t even be able to walk freely. And I hope everyone else does as well
You’re misunderstanding the situation.
We’re not asking Kamala to get involved in a foreign war. We’re asking Kamala to end the US’s involvement in a foreign war.
I know it’s confusing, because Biden and Harris keep talking as if they’re doing all they can to stop the fighting. But the truth is, Biden and Harris are the ones providing the weapons.
but shouldn’t we be more worried about the terrorists on our home soil before fighting foreign lands
Probably, which is why Harris should stop giving weapons and billions of dollars of war funding to Israel.
And the worst part is: I STILL don’t know who the bad guy is. Israel? Palestine?
Again, I understand your confusion, because Biden and Harris keep talking about the need to protect Israel. But Israel is the one carrying out a genocide of innocent civilians (with US support).
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https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/09/kamala-harris-israel-gaza-questions/
I’m still wondering when Americans will finally wake up and realise how absolutely fucked their entire system is. You are being forced to pick between a genocidal bastard or fascist wannabe-dictator for the highest seat of government.
You guys really need to get together and just dismantle the entire thing. It was a good try but it’s fucked. Start again.
Gotta tell you, that wannabe dictator would be even more genocidal. The dude was so fanatically pro-Israel in the debate that he accused Harris of being the cause of its destruction within two years if she is elected. He has not called for any sort of cease-fire. He has not criticized arms shipments to Israel and never called for them to be paused.
Right, but you must realise if I asked you to choose between getting your hand amputated or your arm amputated, for no reason, the correct answer isn’t your hand, it’s to refuse to allow unnecessary amputations to continue.
“no reason”? if the alternative to a hand or arm amputation is death, yeah, i’m gonna choose a hand amputation.
that’s what our alternative is in your analogy. remember the US is highly polarized right now, so one (sane) group taking over the US govt is likely impossible, and even if successful would end up in a massive civil war. that would not only destroy life in the US for the foreseeable future, but the entire global economy and geopolitical equilibrium.
And how would you propose we do such a thing? Because if “just overthrow the government” was that easy, Donald Trump would be president right now.
Step one is admitting there’s a problem.
Lots of people admit there’s a problem. That doesn’t answer my question.
If you don’t admit that there’s a problem, then answering your question would be a waste of time, because you would, most likely, just be looking for something to argue with me about, rather than considering my points in good faith.
If you’re happy to start the conversation from a place where you admit that, yes, the US political system is so rigged that it is impossible to meaningfully reform, then I’m happy to answer your question.
Sure, there’s a problem. Now please answer my question.
Stop shifting the blame, currently trump is not in power. So the people in power has all the blame they should get right now. Trump is just more honest but in reality both will do their best to defend israel
Harris is not in power either. She does not set or implement policy. You do know what the powers of the Vice President are, yes?
Are you telling me thst a vice president which one of it’s function is to be advisor to the president shouldn’t have part of the responsability?
Not unless you know what she’s advised him of, no. Or are you under the impression that he has to do what people who advise him say?
If the government support a genocidal terrorist state then anybody in the government has the responsibility to resign
Okay, well that’s not going to happen. So the choice is going to be Trump or Harris and to suggest that we can’t know where Trump stands on Israel compared to Harris is either dishonest or highly ignorant.
The fact is that both of them are on the wrong side of this genocide, so they have to be chosen by other criteria. “Just don’t vote for either of them” is not an answer. That’s also not going to happen for most voters.
That’s not one of the functions of the vice president actually.
blame is irrelevant. what is relevant is choosing who you think will handle it best (or less bad) in the next 4 years. if you think that’s trump, you’re delusional. if you think trump would have handled the last 11 months better, you’re delusional.
Trump is just more honest
…seriously?
