• FooBarrington@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    15 days ago

    “Utopia” doesn’t mean everyone gets what they want. People can want things to be worse while still living in a Utopia.

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      15 days ago

      I agree with your more sensible definition but it is a slippery concept.

      It’s a bit ambiguous what it means to say:

      unless it’s Utopia for everyone

      Is it Utopia “for” someone if it isn’t their idea of Utopia? Seems like you are saying yes.

      But if yes, then as long as current conditions meet anyone’s definition of utopia, then we’re all living in one.

      Which brings us back to the OP.

      • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        15 days ago

        But if yes, then as long as current conditions meet anyone’s definition of utopia, then we’re all living in one.

        No, Utopia has a defined set of meanings. If current conditions meet someone’s definition of Utopia, but doesn’t meet the defined set of meanings, it doesn’t mean current conditions are Utopia.

        • scarabic@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          15 days ago

          Where exactly is this defined meaning?

          utopia (noun) an imagined place or state of things in which everything is perfect.

          According to Oxford Languages it is very much in the eye of the beholder and not objectively defined.

          • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            15 days ago

            Let’s go with the Cambridge definition:

            a perfect society in which people work well with each other and are happy

            The Oxford Languages definition is incomplete enough to not be a valid counter argument - “perfect” doesn’t mean everyone 100% gets what they want. The only sensible interpretation is “perfect” from a societal perspective.

            • scarabic@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              15 days ago

              Well we may just have to disagree. Even your definition requires that everyone be happy, and cooperating. I think that goes against your earlier contention that regardless of what people want, utopia has an objective definition.

              It is what people want it to be, and people want different things.