Hopefully now a better future for Palestinians and Israelis is ahead.
I’m not sure the Palestinians will view being ethnically cleansed slightly less vigorously as a brighter future.
He was the mastermind behind the Oct. 7th attack. The world is a better place without him.
Yes, but the masterminds behind levelling Gaza are still at large.
Unfortunately.
Nobody’s arguing that. His death being good and the continued eradication of the Palestinian people by the IDF and Israeli state can coexist.
To be perfectly clear, since this is the internet and people can’t seem to have two concepts in their minds at once: The genocide of the Palestinian people needs to stop.
Removed by mod
Removed for genocide denial.
To be 100% clear here, the precise definition of a genocide has five criteria, it only takes ONE to be declared a genocide.
Israel’s actions in Gaza meet ALL FIVE requirements.
https://iccforum.com/genocide-convention
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
There is no genocide, there is no official source for that. War is bad, but this is not a genocide.
The International Criminal Courts and the UN declared Isreal guilty of extermination (genocide), among a plethora of other war crimes/crimes against humanity.
Removed by mod
I’m putting this here for everyone to see how pathetic zionist propagandists can be, and not because you demanded easily verifiable facts be spoon fed to you:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court_investigation_in_Palestine
Takes 2 seconds to Google and click on the first link to wiki. You can read everything there, and click on the references tab near the bottom for the official ICC website links.
Bold assumption to claim it will get less intense.
I am probably out of the loop but how does one go about Identifying a Palestinian without shooting everyone?
I think IDF also uses option B - explosives. Also very effective, since the only ones who get harmed by IDF weapons are Hamas, so everyone killed/harmed in the blast zone can safely be declared Hamas.
/s
Palestinians have never been ethnically cleansed. There are also peaceful Palestinians that don’t want, and do want a brighter future.
Ethnic Cleansing has always been a cornerstone of Zionism.
Origins of Zionism
Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe.
Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.
That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.
Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
Quote
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
- The Transfer Committee, and the JNF Ethnic Cleansing, which led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate before the Nakba
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
Historian Works on the History
-
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
-
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
-
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
-
The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
-
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
-
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
-
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
-
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
-
10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
Gaza Strip wasn’t a very joyful time even before the war. It was ruled by extremist religious terrorists that would literally torture, rape and kill you for whatever reason (like being gay).
People somehow conveniently ignore this.
You should read up on some history. I will briefly recapitulate:
-
Israel started a war in 1967. Israel would argue it was in self defense, but their argument is basically the same as that of Russia for invading Ukraine. They (Russia and Israel) felt “threatened”, but they shot first. This war is known as the six day war.
-
One outcome of this war was that 400k Syrians and Palestinians were displaced (something the western media has referred to as a form of ethnic cleansing in the context of the Russian invasion of Ukraine), and the Golan heights, Sinai peninsula (this might be another conflict), and the Gaza strip were occupied by Israel. Two of these are occupied to this day, a violation of international law (you’re not supposed to steal land by war). Here, I mean occupied in the sense that both Israeli troops, as well as Israeli settlers were present in the Gaza strip.
-
In 2005, in an effort to improve their standing in the international community, Israel decided to disengage from Gaza in a very specific way. There would no longer be any troops or settlers present inside the Gaza strip. However, Israel would maintain complete control of the airspace, borders, and its shoreline. That is, anything or anyone going in or out of Gaza needs to be approved by Israel. That sounds bad, but to really appreciate the impact this has, it helps to know some figures. Gaza is twice the size of Washington DC, or about the size of Rotterdam, and it has about 2 million citizens. That’s three times as much as Rotterdam, so it’s very densely populated. That means it cannot feed itself, and relies on imports. Imagine a city in your country being completely cut off from the outside world beyond its borders. How long would it survive? At any rate, it is hopefully clear that Israel maintained its occupation of Gaza in 2005, despite not having boots on the ground. It is this version of the Gaza occupation that even David Cameron (who is not a progressive) called a prison camp. Do you know another word for a prison camp where you keep people of one ethnicity? Starts with a “c”.
-
in 2006, two years after the death of Arafat, elections were held in Gaza and the West Bank for the legislative council of the Palestinian Authority. These elections were monitored by the Carter foundation, which found them to be fair. The Palestinians elected Hamas, which had a much less collaborationist attitude than the ruling Fatah. This upset Israel and the US. Hillary Clinton is quoted saying “we should have made sure that we did something to determine who was going to win.”
This describes the status quo up until October 7th. Some choice facts about the 2006-2023 period:
-
in 2008, Israel calculated how many calories Gaza needs to survive and used this to limit the amount of food allowed into Gaza. This mass starvation policy ended after two years through international pressure. In the meantime, Hamas dug tunnels to smuggle more food in so that Palestinians could eat.
-
Construction materials are not allowed into Gaza. This means that necessary repairs to crucial civilian infrastructure such as desalination plants cannot be done.
-
Israel conducts regular bombing campaigns in Gaza, which they call “mowing the lawn”. This has killed thousands of Palestinians.
-
At the march of return, a recent peaceful rally by Palestinians to be allowed back in their homeland, Israeli snipers deliberately shot people in the knees maiming dozens. In total 183 Palestinians were murdered, and thousands injured. Hospitals were overwhelmed.
There’s much, much more. So no, Gaza was not a joyful place to live before October 7th, and yes, it is because of religious terrorists, just not the ones you’re referring to.
I appreciate your wall of text but I genuinely don’t understand your point here.
Both Israel and Hamas can be oppressors here, no?
-
I think you mean Israel, who does torture, rape, and kill Palestinians (including children) for whatever reason. Pinkwashing the Apartheid doesn’t justify it.
Palestinian Prisoners in Israeli Prisons
Palestinians are jailed without charge, forced into false confessions, routinely tortured, raped, denied medical attention, and some killed as a result. This includes hundreds of children.
Palestinians denied civil rights (HRW) including Military Court (B’TSelem)
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel (wiki)
Children are jailed and abused in Israeli prisons (Save The Children)
Torture and Abuse in Interrogations (B’TSelem)
Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy (NPR)
Indeed, one of them is the Islamic Jihad. I hope the Palestinians will have a positive government.
Not while Netanyahu remains in power, he has no incentive to end this.
Neither does Israel in general, nor the US backing them.
Netanyahu is indeed a problematic figure who take these situations into his advantage, maybe another would be better to make peace.
It’s the only way. The problem is that if he called an election tomorrow he would stand a good chance of winning it.
Hamas was created as a reaction to Israel oppressing Palestinians.
The resistance will continue until the oppressors stop oppressing them.
Sinwar was not a charismatic guy who brainwashed everyone into attacking Israel. Israel oppressed Palestinians into violent resistance.
100%, everyone thinking Palestinians were duped by Sinwar into striking back at Israel has no knowledge of the history of Israel as a Settler-Colonial project.
Fun fact, practically “Palestinian” consists of a diverse population of Arabs (i.e. Bedouin and Muslims), Jews, and Christians and more. So which do you refer to as “Palestinians”?
Sinwar was not a charismatic guy who brainwashed everyone into attacking Israel.
He WAS a charismatic killer who brainwashed into attacking Israel.
According tohttps://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/AHRC47NGO145_150621.pdf “United Nations Watch is concerned that the Palestinian education system continues to promote antisemitism and incite terrorism, including in schools of the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA).”
Fun fact nothing you said is true.
the future that you speaking of called “west bank” where “Israeli occupier” put bounty on “indigenous Palestinian” homes for burning their cars or destroying their properties. Where the “Israeli occupier” open carry guns threatening or shooting “indigenous Palestinian” and if the “indigenous Palestinian” fight back in any form “since they don’t have guns” they get into a military court, then prison, maybe without a charge, then get raped in prison, based on “Israeli sources”
Pretending this not a case of apartheid genocidal military force is stupid considering the overwhelming evidence that you can find reading a few news article or maybe 5 minutes in Wikipedia.
If you are bored maybe you can watch this episode of Anthony Bourdain “Palestine parts unknown” aired in 2013 and ask yourself if that the past and the current living condition what makes believe this will help in anyway!
Sounds like 'Merica!
Fun fact, practically “indigenous Palestinian” consists of a diverse population of Arabs (i.e. Bedouin and Muslims), Jews, and Christians, Bedouin and more. So which do you refer to as “indigenous Palestinian”?
“Israeli occupier” is a pure propaganda. Israel received an official support for by the UN for setting up a state. Whoever was against it it’s his own problem. Israel has the right to be an independent heterogeneous multicultural and multi-religion state.
Israel received an official support for by the UN for setting up a state.
And that was how many years ago, like 75? The UN and the ICC declared Isreal guilty of extermination, among other crimes against humanity, just this year. It’s messed up it took them this long to do it.
So which do you refer to as “indigenous Palestinian”?
Spoken like a holocaust denier being intentionally thick.
Are you just completely ignoring the events of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War?
Not really likely. With all these kids and the younger generation terrorised/traumatized by Israel, hopes for a lasting peace is dim. Imagine your home and loved ones being torn into pieces right in front of your eyes by Israel all because of a terrorist attack that you played no part in. Now multiply this by tens of thousands…They will go on to be members or leaders of whatever terrorist/resistance organization follows hamas. It’s an endless cycle where only people on the very top take advantage off.
This is a sad truth, and it can only be solved with education. Both states are traumatized. It’s time to come together.
Both states are traumatized. It’s time to come together.
Give me a fucking break. One state is subsidized by American taxpayers, receiving about $5 billion per year ($18 billion this year alone) from the US to rain terror on the other, steal their land, and exterminate them over the course of almost a century.
We hanged Nazis at Nuremberg for the same thing Isrealis have been doing. Collaborators were rounded up and shot. There is no coming together after (or during) a genocide.
Probably not the tens of thousands of murdered Palestinians. Homeless, without any future.
It’s possible. See the numerous states that went through hard times and strive eventually. When you believe it, it’s possible.
Nope, it will only intensify. Yahya Sinwar wasn’t some evil mastermind manipulating and controlling the Palestinian people, they have been fighting an existential war against a genocidal entity that has been exterminating them for nearly a century. You can’t get a ceasefire by killing someone beloved by the Palestinian people.
You can hate Sinwar if you want and celebrate if you wish, but the Palestinian people are not celebrating right now, they are mourning. Historically, deaths of Hamas leaders have only hurt ceasefire talks.
Comments like these are just supporting these kinds of heinous figures like him, and it’s just sad, and evil.
Yahya Sinwar wasn’t some evil mastermind manipulating and controlling the Palestinian people This is a pure lie.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Sinwar: “Sinwar planned the abduction and killing of two Israeli soldiers and the murder of four Palestinians whom he suspected of cooperating with Israel.” “Sinwar was believed to have overseen the torture and execution.” And this is just part of the list.
they have been fighting an existential war against a genocidal There no genocide. Lie #2. This is not Israel’s goal in this war. Or ever.
beloved by the Palestinian people. Lie #3.
Stop posting lies.
I wasn’t making a moral judgement of Sinwar, but contextualizing the Palestinian view of him. Palestinians sided with Hamas and Sinwar because of Israel’s genocide against Palestine, Sinwar wasn’t some great and powerful manipulator able to trick an entire population. Again, I am not making a moral justification for Sinwar, I am explaining why this isn’t leading to a ceasefire.
Secondly, are you denying that Israel is committing genocide?
Third, Sinwar absolutely has positive views among Palestinians. The majority of Palestinians support fighting Israel, and the footage of him perishing on the front lines, in full combat garb, defiantly throwing scrap metal at the drone confirming his soon to be death, has fully disproven the idea that he was a coward hiding in a bunker this whole time. He is more popular now than ever before.
Palestinians sided with Hamas and Sinwar.
“Hamas has governed the Gaza Strip in Palestine since its takeover of the region from rival party Fatah in June 2007.”
The Palestinians had no option but to choose between an antisemitistic group at the time called Hamas (by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Hamas_charter) or a group who officially claims that no other human can be Palestinian, besides Arabs, which is called Fatah (by https://irp.fas.org/dni/osc/fatah-charter.pdf)
It means, that at the time of the election (2006) almost half of the Palestinians supported Hamas, which officially had antisemistic principals.
Third, Sinwar absolutely has positive views among Palestinians. You linked a highly biased news, so unfortunately I can’t refer to that. As a reminder, Sinwar was the official leader of Hamas. Every school that teached terrorism, every old man, women, children and babys, every tunnel that was digged under civilians, everything that happens, and the consequences of this war, by Hamas, are his responsibility.
I disagree that Israel is commiting genocide. There are millions peaceful Palestinians who live peacefully. This is not a genocide.
I don’t disagree with you but you posted Wikipedia as your source and thats just cringe. At least use the source that Wikipedia cited, please.
“We finally caught him, now once all those pesky civilians are starved, we can start to heal.”
Beginning of the end? jfc
“killed in surprise encounter” Makes it sound like he walked around a corner, saw them, and had a heart attack.
nothing to see here :)
If Netanyahu says it is ending soon then that is something I can appreciate, perhaps the pressure of a US withdrawal of support coupled with pending war with Lebanon will force Netanyahu into a moderate position in order to keep power.
Marvelous and joyful news
The Guardian - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for The Guardian:
MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: Medium - Factual Reporting: Mixed - United Kingdom
Wikipedia about this sourceSearch topics on Ground.News
A martyr, died fighting an occupation and genocide against his people.
Hamas aren’t even of Palestinian Origin. They started as an arm of the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt with funding and weaponry from Iran. Iran as well has support from Russia among others.
Palestine is the battlegrounds but they don’t really have any players on the board.
It took 2 months for my wish to be granted but I’m not complaining :)
So Hamas has no leadership and will dissolve now? Or is this guy already replaced by someone worse?
Of course Hamas won’t dissolve, their entire structure is designed to minimize the impact of assassinating leadership, otherwise they would have folded long ago.
Hamas will eventually dissolve. This is one of the IDF goals in this war.
I don’t believe the IDF will win, actually. The entire strategy of the Resistance is more to bleed Israel to death with a thousand cuts than it is to storm Israel and take Tel Aviv. They want Israel to be unable to defend itself and have everyone leave Palestinian land, and to do so they make it incredibly expensive, rockets that cost thousands against defense rockets that cost tens of millions. That’s how asymetric warfare works. That’s why they use tunnels, so Israel’s bombs struggle to reach them and can’t invade properly.
Israel have bombs that weight tons and can easily enter bunker (refer to Hassan Nasrallah assassination). Putting tunnels under civilians is an evil strategy. Actually I’m tired of making sense out of it.
