Both examples you provided resulted in some of the most horrific genocides in modern memory perpetrated by the dominant ethnic groups against ethnic minorities seen as outsiders or invaders. These issues are still not reconciled to this day and still amount to daily acts of violence or terror.
Are you suggesting in your answer that the acceptable end to Israeli colonialism is the tables being turned on them? Because that’s what would happen.
Israel does need to de-escalate, disarm, de-colonise while recognising the Palestinian state. Allowing any of their neighbours to oversee this would just see another genocide perpetrated.
Either way the status quo becomes genocide. So, what’s our goal here?
The status quo is genocide now, just as it was in apartheid south Africa and civil-war era Rwanda and Bosnia. Israel and Palestine are at the stage of genocide now. The next stage will be truth and reconciliation, and likely an international peacekeeping force. If you insist on a perfect, clean solution where 100% of the violence stops once and forever, then you will never have it and you will only continue the current genocide. Decades of genocide have consequences and the sooner they are faced the better for everyone.
What I’m getting at is that nobody will touch that mess with a ten-foot pole. It is in no middle eastern nation’s best interest to keep Israel around. If the UN isn’t going to hop into Israel and prevent atrocities commited against Palestine by a so called american ally what are they going to do when Hezbollah and Hamas perpetrate the same while backed by Iran?
Have you by chance read Shake Hands With the Devil? It covers the UN response to genocide in Rwanda and it wasn’t pretty.
The middle east basically just gets to choose their favourite flavour of Genocide forever now.
Best not do anything then, eh? Keep arming Israel until they finish the genocide I guess? Stop the genocide now, and do what it takes to make it work. Israel would have to give up quite a lot of territory at a minimum, and may likely cease to exist as a state at all (see Rhodesia). Jews can coexist in the region, but not as settler colonialists.
You’re taking what I’m saying in bad faith. Then proposing a solution that just would never work. You’re calling for the cessation of a (ethno)state. One whose theology is a large contributing factor to hostilities they perpetrate and that are targeted at them.
Keeping Israel is not a great option, nor is it even the better of two evils. But the end of Israel would spell the end of the Israeli peoples by way of genocide as well. A solution where Israel is forced to cooperate, sit at the table and work things out with a two state solutiom is the clear option. Though that will never happen under Netanyahu.
You also can’t ignore the fact that every single one of their neighbours (nations, not people) would see every last Israeli dead or displaced. Regardless of how the israeli state came to be, they are now a legitimate ethnic group in the area who can easilly become the target of their own brand of ethnic cleansing.
I don’t know how else to take what you’re saying. It’s like that Simpsons meme “We’ve tried nothing, and we’re all out of ideas!”. This kind of handwringing about the ‘complexity’ of the issue only benefits Israel in it’s ongoing genocide of Palestinians. Yes, a lot of people that neighbor Israel hate it for very fucking good reasons, and it will take a lot of sacrifices from Israelis to build any sort of good will with their neighbors. This is unavoidable.
Both examples you provided resulted in some of the most horrific genocides in modern memory perpetrated by the dominant ethnic groups against ethnic minorities seen as outsiders or invaders. These issues are still not reconciled to this day and still amount to daily acts of violence or terror.
Are you suggesting in your answer that the acceptable end to Israeli colonialism is the tables being turned on them? Because that’s what would happen.
Israel does need to de-escalate, disarm, de-colonise while recognising the Palestinian state. Allowing any of their neighbours to oversee this would just see another genocide perpetrated.
Either way the status quo becomes genocide. So, what’s our goal here?
The status quo is genocide now, just as it was in apartheid south Africa and civil-war era Rwanda and Bosnia. Israel and Palestine are at the stage of genocide now. The next stage will be truth and reconciliation, and likely an international peacekeeping force. If you insist on a perfect, clean solution where 100% of the violence stops once and forever, then you will never have it and you will only continue the current genocide. Decades of genocide have consequences and the sooner they are faced the better for everyone.
What I’m getting at is that nobody will touch that mess with a ten-foot pole. It is in no middle eastern nation’s best interest to keep Israel around. If the UN isn’t going to hop into Israel and prevent atrocities commited against Palestine by a so called american ally what are they going to do when Hezbollah and Hamas perpetrate the same while backed by Iran?
Have you by chance read Shake Hands With the Devil? It covers the UN response to genocide in Rwanda and it wasn’t pretty.
The middle east basically just gets to choose their favourite flavour of Genocide forever now.
Best not do anything then, eh? Keep arming Israel until they finish the genocide I guess? Stop the genocide now, and do what it takes to make it work. Israel would have to give up quite a lot of territory at a minimum, and may likely cease to exist as a state at all (see Rhodesia). Jews can coexist in the region, but not as settler colonialists.
You’re taking what I’m saying in bad faith. Then proposing a solution that just would never work. You’re calling for the cessation of a (ethno)state. One whose theology is a large contributing factor to hostilities they perpetrate and that are targeted at them.
Keeping Israel is not a great option, nor is it even the better of two evils. But the end of Israel would spell the end of the Israeli peoples by way of genocide as well. A solution where Israel is forced to cooperate, sit at the table and work things out with a two state solutiom is the clear option. Though that will never happen under Netanyahu.
You also can’t ignore the fact that every single one of their neighbours (nations, not people) would see every last Israeli dead or displaced. Regardless of how the israeli state came to be, they are now a legitimate ethnic group in the area who can easilly become the target of their own brand of ethnic cleansing.
This is not black and white at all.
I don’t know how else to take what you’re saying. It’s like that Simpsons meme “We’ve tried nothing, and we’re all out of ideas!”. This kind of handwringing about the ‘complexity’ of the issue only benefits Israel in it’s ongoing genocide of Palestinians. Yes, a lot of people that neighbor Israel hate it for very fucking good reasons, and it will take a lot of sacrifices from Israelis to build any sort of good will with their neighbors. This is unavoidable.
The sacrifice you’re talking about is trading one genocide for another.
You realise this, right?
No goddamit. You have this in your mind. I am not accepting your premise.