Green Party candidate Jill Stein is gaining ground among Muslim-American voters in three critical swing states: Michigan, Arizona, and Wisconsin, according to a recent poll by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).
Stein leads Vice President and Democrat candidate Kamala Harris in these states, with 40 per cent support in Michigan, 35 per cent in Arizona, and 44 per cent in Wisconsin. This surge in popularity appears tied to Stein’s vocal criticism of US support for Israel during the ongoing genocide in Gaza.
that’s what happens when you tell voters to fuck off when they suggest ways in which you can win their vote. hope it was worth it!
Liberals downvoting this would rather plug their ears and cover their eyes instead of confronting their issues and calling on Kamala to sanction Israel.
every thread from now until December
Don’t worry everyone, just one more damage control vote and things will all be fixed. The democrats pinky swears. /$
Kamala isn’t president yet. You can call on her to sanction Israel as president, without also pushing another candidate.
Jill Stein’s only practical role in this election is as a presidential spoiler benefitting Trump, and if Trump wins then Palestine is really truly f’d anyway.
It also doesn’t help that a vote for Jill Stein is a vote for the disbandment of NATO and the disruption of Ukraine aid. Those are extreme positions that have nothing to do with Israel-Palestine, and many of those interested in voting for her are likely not even aware of those stances.
Kamala isn’t president yet. You can call on her to sanction Israel as president, without also pushing another candidate.
She has promised to always keep sending Israel bombs. She can promise to sanction Israel if she wants to regain votes she is shedding by promising to continue genocide.
Jill Stein’s only practical role in this election is as a presidential spoiler benefitting Trump, and if Trump wins then Palestine is really truly f’d anyway.
Jill Stein’s platform is a lot better than the Democrats, votes for her pull the DNC to the left. If Trump wins, he will indeed continue the genocide started under the Democrats, but so would Kamala.
It also doesn’t help that a vote for Jill Stein is a vote for the disbandment of NATO and the disruption of Ukraine aid. Those are extreme positions that have nothing to do with Israel-Palestine, and many of those interested in voting for her are likely not even aware of those stances.
Then tell people what she stands for. For what it’s worth, disbanding NATO is the single greatest thing any American President could do for the Global South, taking a firm stand against Imperialism.
She has promised to always keep sending Israel bombs. She can promise to sanction Israel if she wants to regain votes she is shedding by promising to continue genocide.
She has not promised to “keep sending Israel bombs”. She has said that she would continue to arm Israel, but a) she would have to support Israel so far as Congress continues to apportion aid to Israel, and b) she has also repeatedly stated that she wants a 2-state solution and to enact a ceasefire.
Jill Stein’s platform is a lot better than the Democrats, votes for her pull the DNC to the left.
I disagree with this. You’d think that voting for Jill Stein would pressure the DNC to go further left, but if Trump wins then it sends the message that the progressive left can’t be trusted to vote for them, so they’ll go back to appealing to moderates. So the gains created by giving Sanders/AOC-types more leverage in the party and nominating Tim Walz for VP (the most progressive pick out of everyone considered) would be lost.
If Trump wins, he will indeed continue the genocide started under the Democrats, but so would Kamala.
I believe the assault on Palestine would be accelerated under Trump. You can call it lip service if you want, but at least Kamala has repeatedly called for a 2-state solution, meaning she’d continue to do the bare minimum req’d by Congress as far as supporting Israel would be concerned. Trump has never supported a 2-state solution, verbally or otherwise - the guy even moved the Israel embassy into Jerusalem, against the suggestion of virtually all his foreign aid experts. He has more interest in stoking this conflict than not.
For what it’s worth, disbanding NATO is the single greatest thing any American President could do for the Global South, taking a firm stand against Imperialism.
I disagree very, very strongly. I don’t see how this “takes a firm stance against imperialism” because Russia is 100% the aggressor of that conflict. They had no legitimate reason to cross into Ukraine’s border and open fire, other than to further imperialistic ambition. The whole point of NATO is to discourage that ambition.
She has not promised to “keep sending Israel bombs”. She has said that she would continue to arm Israel
lol
Copied from my other reply:
I’m sorry, but “saying that she’d continue to arm Israel”, which would literally be her job if Congress apportions funds for her to arm Israel, is not equivalent to “promising to give Israel bombs”. The keyword “promise”, to me, suggests she would do anything her power to aid Israel, even if she doesn’t have to. I’ll accept any constructive criticism of this take, but not a strawmanning that strips away the context that it’s literally the law to do what Congress says in this case.
Here’s the thing, taking your paraphrased quotes as accurate (and I believe they are) she is not appending any condition on arming Israel. She did not say “If Congress apportions funds, I will arm Israel,” [let alone “If and only if,”] she said “I will continue to arm Israel,” without any conditional, which Biden has demonstrated the President can do at least to some extent through unilateral executive authority in addition to Congress being able to do it. Therefore, the statements are equivalent. I therefore maintain that “lol/lmao” is a valid response to claiming they are different.
Site tagline material.
She has not promised to “keep sending Israel bombs”. She has said that she would continue to arm Israel
Lmao
I disagree with this. You’d think that voting for Jill Stein would pressure the DNC to go further left, but if Trump wins then it sends the message that the progressive left can’t be trusted to vote for them, so they’ll go back to appealing to moderates. So the gains created by giving Sanders/AOC-types more leverage in the party and nominating Tim Walz for VP (the most progressive pick out of everyone considered) would be lost.
Historically this isn’t the case. The DNC only throws the left a bone if they need to.
I disagree very, very strongly. I don’t see how this “takes a firm stance against imperialism” because Russia is 100% the aggressor of that conflict. They had no legitimate reason to cross into Ukraine’s border and open fire, other than to further imperialistic ambition. The whole point of NATO is to discourage that ambition.
We aren’t talking about Russia and Ukraine, though NATO did provoke that. NATO itself is an offensive alliance that has plundered the Global South, period, without needing to reference Russia nor Ukraine. Ask anyone in the Global South what their opinion of NATO is.
> Lmao
I’m sorry, but “saying that she’d continue to arm Israel”, which would literally be her job if Congress apportions funds for her to arm Israel, is not equivalent to “promising to give Israel bombs”. The keyword “promise”, to me, suggests she would do anything her power to aid Israel, even if she doesn’t have to. I’ll accept any constructive criticism of this take, but not a strawmanning that strips away the context that it’s literally the law to do what Congress says in this case.
> Historically this isn’t the case. The DNC only throws the left a bone if they need to.
Do you have any sources for this?
> We aren’t talking about Russia and Ukraine, though NATO did provoke that. NATO itself is an offensive alliance that has plundered the Global South, period, without needing to reference Russia nor Ukraine. Ask anyone in the Global South what their opinion of NATO is.
This segment of the discussion IS about Russia and Ukraine, because it’s what I raised at the end of my first post.
In any case, do you have any sources for this? Because from my perspective, I don’t see how NATO provoked that conflict. It was Russia, not a NATO-membered country nor Ukraine, that crossed the Ukrainian border and opened fire on Ukrainian territory that started the war.
I’m sorry, but “saying that she’d continue to arm Israel”, which would literally be her job if Congress apportions funds for her to arm Israel, is not equivalent to “promising to give Israel bombs”. The keyword “promise”, to me, suggests she would do anything her power to aid Israel, even if she doesn’t have to. I’ll accept any constructive criticism of this take, but not a strawmanning that strips away the context that it’s literally the law to do what Congress says in this case.
She has promised to always support Israel and aid it in its defense. It’s cut and dry, she will posture for a ceasefire while supporting genocide.
Do you have any sources for this?
Sure. During FDR’s campaign, coming off of the Great Depression, the Ruling Class feared a US October Revolution like what happened in the USSR, so the US became a Social Democracy for a time. Leftward movement comes from fear from the Ruling Class.
This segment of the discussion IS about Russia and Ukraine, because it’s what I raised at the end of my first post.
My point was not. My point was that pulling out of NATO is the single greatest act for the majority of Mankind that any US President could do. You’re shifting it back to Russia.
In any case, do you have any sources for this? Because from my perspective, I don’t see how NATO provoked that conflict. It was Russia, not a NATO-membered country nor Ukraine, that crossed the Ukrainian border and opened fire on Ukrainian territory that started the war.
Stoltenberg admitted it. “The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that. So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.”
In other words, NATO expansionism and encirclement of Russia despite Russia warning against it caused it. NATO was formed by Anticommunists against the USSR, and retained its anti-Russia purpose even after the dissolution of the USSR. Had NATO not expanded against Russia’s wishes, Russia would not have invaded Ukraine.
She has promised to always support Israel and aid it in its defense. It’s cut and dry, she will posture for a ceasefire while supporting genocide.
Paying lip-service to the support of Israel’s defense is not equivalent to personally supporting genocide. You could argue that it’s practically the same thing if she ultimately continues to arm Israel and Israel continues to attack Gaza, but I don’t think the blame should be placed on her, it should be placed principally on Israel, next on a Congress that apportions funds for Israel.
During FDR’s campaign, coming off of the Great Depression, the Ruling Class feared a US October Revolution like what happened in the USSR, so the US became a Social Democracy for a time. Leftward movement comes from fear from the Ruling Class.
My original claim was that if progressives split the vote, and the GOP wins as a result, that’ll shift the party right.
This isn’t a counter-example to that, IMO it’s an example that the worse the economy is for the working class, the harder the working class swings politics left, which I would agree with. That said, the Great Depression was also a much worse economic period.
I think an example in favor of what I’m talking about is the 2000 election. Bush won Florida by less than 1000 votes, but 100k votes were cast for the socialist candidate, most of which would’ve otherwise gone to Gore. The result was Bush not only winning in 2000, but again in 04. And in 08 we get someone who appealed moderates as much as he did to progressives.
My point was not. My point was that pulling out of NATO is the single greatest act for the majority of Mankind that any US President could do. You’re shifting it back to Russia.
I’m not shifting the entire conversation back to Russia, just this portion of it, because that’s where this portion started, and your point about dissolving NATO being an anti-imperalist move contradicts my take that removing the check against Russia is a pro-imperialist move. Also I don’t see how disbanding NATO would be “the single great act for the majority of Mankind that any US President could do“, feel free to elaborate.
In other words, NATO expansionism and encirclement of Russia despite Russia warning against it caused it. NATO was formed by Anticommunists against the USSR, and retained its anti-Russia purpose even after the dissolution of the USSR. Had NATO not expanded against Russia’s wishes, Russia would not have invaded Ukraine.
Russia could have simply…not invaded Ukraine? NATO is just a defensive alliance, it getting bigger doesn’t put Russia in danger unless Russia has imperialistic tendencies.
You could argue that Russia feared that NATO getting bigger meant that the individual countries get bigger, meaning they may choose to attack Russia themselves with larger power. But Russia could use that as an excuse to shore up its own alliances and continue building its own military (both actions taken in case of Russian invasion), not to invade a non-NATO country for no other reason?
She’s the VICE president! We can already judge her actions and make pretty accurate judgements on how she will act as president based on what she is currently doing. Which is aiding genocide.
Being the VP by itself doesn’t give her any authority to make decisions concerning the Israel-Palestine conflict.
You can criticize her on the basis that she’ll likely continue the same kinds of actions Biden has already taken in the conflict, which has involved support for Israel, but also some sanctions against Israel, ceasfires, and calls for a two-state solution. I’m under the impression that if Biden was truly unconditionally pro-Israel, that the conflict would be over by now in the most violent way.
I’m under the impression that if Biden was truly unconditionally pro-Israel, that the conflict would be over by now in the most violent way.
He literally sidestepped around congress twice to shovel guns and bombs to them faster than even the bloodthirsty Zionists in Congress could — who were already themselves bipartisanly moving to do the same.
He 100% wanted Gazans wiped off the face of the earth before the elections hit. Don’t make yourself such an easy mark for the most despicable racketeers, murderers, and liars that billionaire and arms-dealer money can buy. These democrat politicians, just like their Republican colleagues who work for the same class of people, would disappear both of us and our entire families to one of the countless bipartisan CIA blacksite torture camps around the world before showing real humanity toward the working class and the victims of their imperialism. There is never any reason to defend them.
The fact that she’s at the highest levels of Biden admin is itself an endorsement of the policies of the administration she’s part of. She absolutely can be judged on that bases. On top of that, everything she has said publicly clearly indicates that she’ll all in on the genocide. She even repeated debunked October 7th rape claims at the debate. There is no question of where she stands. It’s the height of intellectual dishonesty to continue pretending otherwise.
smh just because I was Hitler’s personal attaché doesn’t mean I agree with Hitler’s policies it wasn’t like I had the authority to make those decisions myself while I helped engage in the diplomatic and administrative duties to facilitate them
It also doesn’t help that a vote for Jill Stein is a vote for the disbandment of NATO and the disruption of Ukraine aid.
Jill Stein’s only practical role in this election is as a presidential spoiler benefitting Trump
Can you explain why?
Please research the electoral college before you discuss US presidential elections online.
Sure.
When I say “practical role”, I’m referring to how Stein affects the results of this election.
There is a nearly 0% chance that Jill Stein is going to win the election, and a nearly 100% chance the winner will be either the Dem or GOP nominee. Given that she’s left of Kamala, who’s left of Trump, there are far more Stein voters who would’ve otherwise voted for Kamala than Stein voters who otherwise would’ve voted for Trump. So long as one or both of these voter groups are significantly large (which can mean as few as ~81,000 votes in the right states, since that’s the margin of victory Biden had in 2020), Stein would serve as a significant spoiler for Harris.
Consider the effect that Ralph Nader’s 2000 presidential campaign had on the 2000 election.
It’s literally 0. The entire country could vote unanimously for Stein and the electors could (and would) still just pick a winner from the two major parties.
Awesome.
Let’s give fascism a chance.
Yay
Are you vote-shaming Muslim-Americans refusing to vote for someone committing genocide on Palestinians?
Explicitly YES
A vote fire Stein is a vote for Trump. A vote for stein is a vote for fascism.
Yes. I explicitly shame this behavior.
Shame.
Dig?
A vote fire Stein is a vote for Trump
Can you explain to us why this is so?
Yeah, pay attention.
It’s a two party system as much as that sucks.
Stein has no shot. None. You’re a fool if you think she can win anything anywhere.
Candidate A from team blue sucks ass.
Candidate B from team red is a million times worse
—
If you’re abstaining to make a point or voting for stein because Kamala sucks, you’re enabling the greater of two evils by not actively voting against it.
—
You want a third party? We have to start at the bottom and when we get a shot at a national presence Jill fucken stein ain’t gonna be there
FFS I wish more people would get this. I understand that Kamala’s policy isn’t helping her but I don’t think they’ve done the math that a trump presidency would enable Israel 10 fold, he has made his stance very clear when it comes to Muslims and Israel.
The Muslim-Americans that refuse to vote for a genocidal regime specifically targetting Muslims is somehow fascist, and supporting Trump?
… Please research the electoral laws of the country you live and vote in!
I’m pretty familiar. What are you trying to say?
Unfortunately, yes.
Our system blows. But as it stands, yes, that is correct.
The two party system should change, but until it does, you either vote for the lesser of two evils or you step back enable the greater of two evils.
If you vote for stein you’re worse than most magas because deep down, you know better.
Gotcha, so you’re the liberal that would rather close their eyes and cover their ears than actually try to regain those votes by pushing Kamala to sanction Israel.
I’m no fucken liberal
We should have cut Israel loose 30 years ago
Kamala is as center right as she’s ever been, she’s a fucken cop ffs
You think I wouldn’t rather be voting for somebody even a little left of center, let alone an actual leftist?
That’s not the world as it stands, no matter how much you whinge about making Kamala be mean to isreal
I could piss away my vote because Kamala sucks but what does that get anyone? You want change, dig in. We need to win local first
You think it’s bad for Muslims now? What do you think it looks like if the fucken yahoos running around saying Haitians eat cats win again because a bunch of morons protest voted for stein.
And seriously, Jill fucken stein of all people
I’m no fucken liberal
Voteblues are liberals, sorry
We should have cut Israel loose 30 years ago
Assuming it had to be founded, it should have been destroyed 70-something years ago
.ml dumbfucks at it again.
Stay mad reddit.world 😂
It’s ironic to see people in this thread talking about “Democrats closing their eyes and ears”…
In 1995 the Arab-Israeli electorate sat out the election in protest because of a bombing which allowed Netanyahu to win by half a percent. And now he is still in power today causing all of these atrocities.
Trump has had private meetings with Netanyahu telling him to keep it up because it makes Democrats look bad.
You’re playing into Netanyahu and Trump’s hand. Just like all the MAGAt’s crying about the border when it was trump who stopped the border bill.
Clinton had the PLO (Arafat) and Israel in Washington to sign a peace deal. Arafat walked away. Peace was only talk.
Perfectly balanced
I worry that, if Harris loses because Muslim voters don’t vote for her, liberals will side with Trump when he does another Muslim ban.
Or something worse this time.
On the contrary if they withold their votes Liberals will have to start appealing to them to win them back.
I’m talking about liberals more broadly, not politicians. The angry mass of liberals might decide to get revenge, even if it isn’t in the Democratic Party’s interests.
Possibly but they’ve already shown to care little about brown people while the Muslims did vote Democrat in 2020. They even refused a Palestinian speaker at the DNC.
In the end when the propaganda machine decides it’s time to go it goes and targets whomever needs to be dehumanized. And most people from both sides will accept the propaganda without question.
Okay now you’re contradicting yourself. It sounds like Democrats don’t have to start appealing to Muslims. They’ll just crank out propaganda and join Republicans in eradicating them. And what are they going to do? Vote Republican?
I’m saying that voting Democrat does not gain them any immunity from being racially profiled by Democrats.
They have already appealed to Democrats and got nothing in return.
But you’re also saying that Democrats will have to appeal to them if they withhold their votes. I don’t think they do. Democrats could just write them off like they already do other groups.
Democrats only have so much leeway before they have to crawl back and appeal to voters. Especially since the elections are so close and minority groups hold significant voting power.
Biden got replaced because Democrats realized he was going to lose to Trump. Not because the establishment didn’t want to run him.
