ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]

Ah yes, the reformist, homophobic, climate skeptical, patriotic socialist party. Obviously I am describing a modern extreme left party, and not a certain german party during the 1920’s.

Parties change with the environment their are in or they lose support.

So why aren’t you pressuring the Tories to support PR? Surely if the parties change according to the will of the voters you can just influence any of the parties in the same way, by just voting for them.
Besides, your original claim was that you could vote labour in, then pressure them to adopt PR - why is it now the voting itself that’s going to pressure them? I’ll admit it at least has some link to the labour party, unlike writing letters to podcasts, but you were saying there was going to be a vague something after the voting that changed their minds.

Anyway, I’ve noticed your a hexbear so …

So what? I’ve noticed you’re a fedd, but you don’t hear me harping on about it.

Which are the extreme left parties? Especially the one with members who make extremely racist and homophobic remarks?

Are you saying you think FPTP has delivered representative Parliament?

What? Are you actually reading what I’m writing? How did you get this idea from what I said?

As for action, I bash FPTP every chance I get, including here on Lemmy. But also Reddit (less now), Mastadon and Twitter. I do write into some of the main stream political podcasts I listen to.

So you say that you don’t like FPTP, especially on niche internet communities, and write in to podcasts. Could you explain to me how these influence the actual Labour Party? Like I used the example of an angry letter as a joke about completely ineffectual action, but you’re genuinely suggesting that writing an angry letter to someone with no connection to the Labour Party is action.

I voted for AV.

oh god i’m gonna
You really are a parody of liberal activism.

I don’t know what questions you think you’re answering, but they aren’t mine.

We have used FTPT since the creation of the house of commons in 1708. It’s over 300 years of “the right [having] been able to use FPTP to have unrepresentative governments for decades”. That’s 30 decades, an unreasonable number to summarise as just decades. As a subpoint, [citation needed] on progressives being a majority - your file shows the Conservatives have averaged 40% of the vote for most of the last 100 years, with the Lib Dems taking another 10-20% most of the time, and 50-60% of the vote is definitely a majority before you start adding the conservative members of supposedly liberal parties like labour.

Secondly, nothing you said names a single actual action you’re willing to take to pressure Labour. If you were being realistic you’d have said something like mail bombing or arson, but you haven’t even said you’ll write an angry letter or something. There’s just this gap of thinking where they get into power, and then something vague happens that makes them do the right thing. Back in 2002/3 me and 36 million other people worldwide took to the streets protesting plans to invade Iraq. On the 15th of February the largest demonstration in history occured worldwide, with close to a million people marching in London alone. IT had absolutely no effect on government policy, with our nominally progressive government throwing their full support behind the invasion, so what are you going to do this time that will actually effect change?

If the public mood is turned against PR and everywhere is calling it undemocratic and their government illegitimate, they may not feel they have a choice.

Damn, they may feel they don’t have a choice? Definitely sounds like you know what you’re talking about. We’ll just hope they feel like they have to do it, something that definitely has plenty of historical precedent. What actual physical actions are you thinking of taking that would make them feel they don’t have a choice?

Also confusing - when you talk about the right using FTPT for decades, are you thinking “since 2012” or “since 1708”? Because neither of those are time periods you’d measure in decades.

If you really want the feeling of thac0 at your table you can just do AC - attack bonus to find the number you need to roll over, and bang your head against the table for the rest of the experience.

then push Labour for PR, hard

What do you think this looks like? Like, what, you’re gonna withhold your vote next time, letting a different party take advantage of FTPT, or vote for them anyway, because you’re still trying to keep the tories out of power?
There is absolutely no incentive for them to change the system while in power.

If you’ve been voting for 30+ years you should have the experience to recognise how close in policy the current PLP are to the Tories. If you’re just talking about the last few elections you were naive and deserved to be surprised that the PLP would rather sabotage a left wing candidate than win an election.

The money that backs the Tories is not particularly attached to the Tories, and will move (has already been moving) to the PLP and any other sources of power it can find should the Tories lose. It does not have an ideology beyond constant growth, and is happy to pay members of any party for access.

Tories are pretty boned, period, whenever they launch their last push - the actual threat are Reform, who will either form a coalition with whoever it takes to gain a majority in this election, or outright win next time after the PLP fundamentally change nothing.

It’s always difficult finding the balance between in character and out of character knowledge. I recently had to explain to my players that their characters definitely knew about a major historical event in the setting, because while it happened 10,000 years ago it’s important to the origin of several gods, so is a widely known story.