Need to make a primal scream without gathering footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh facts of Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

  • Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems
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    5 months ago

    You know what would be awesome is if there was a way to easily see new posts to a thread, like if the “New” button actually put New posts on top. Maybe lemmy truly is too janky for that but it’s a shame because I just start to ignore threads after a while.

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      5 months ago

      I recently learned there is a page showing just the comments of the communities you are subscribed to; that works for me because this space is so incredibly low-traffic, but I guess falls apart if you use that account to follow higher-traffic chatter.

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        I use it, but at least on my browser the next button is disabled so I can only see the most recent page of updates. I treat that as a the jank is a feature moment, though; if there’s more than one page of new comments, I’m forced to stop reading.

        a greyed out Next button, and a snippet of developer tools showing it's disabled

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    okay at this point I should probably make a whole-ass perplexity post because this is the third time I’m featuring them in stubsack but 404media found yet more dirt

    … which included creating a series of fake accounts and AI-generated research proposals to scrape Twitter, as CEO Aravind Srinivas recently explained on the Lex Fridman podcast

    According to Srinivas, all he and his cofounders Denis Yarats and Johnny Ho wanted to do was build cool products with large language models, back when it was unclear how that technology would create value

    tell me again how lies and misrepresentation aren’t foundational parts of the business model, I think I missed it

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      5 months ago

      A couple of examples Srinivas gave on the podcast is “Who is Lex Fridman following that Elon Musk is also following,” or “what are the most recent tweets that were liked by both Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos.”

      Questions asked by the terminally deranged.

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        5 months ago

        Or somebody looking for ‘the worst posts online’ cringe compilation. Musks CEOs must be able to build their companies products not be able to read spreadsheets was a good example.

    • Sailor Sega Saturn@awful.systems
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      How can someone implement that and not just be constantly thinking “I really really really do not want to be prosecuted under the CFAA, I should not be doing this”.

      Ethics clearly don’t really work in this profession, so schools should hammer home legal liability as well.

      • froztbyte@awful.systemsOP
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        Ethics clearly don’t really work in this profession, so schools should hammer home legal liability as well.

        I’ve thought about this a bunch in the past, and tbh the only answer I’ve come to over many forms of it “fuck the fucking USA”

        it’s a place that is structurally built to allow for that kind of evasion and abuse to happen

    • self@awful.systems
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      we have internal confirmation that the rabbit team is aware of this leaking of api keys and have chosen to ignore it. the api keys continue to be valid as of writing.

      but of course. rabbit’s done pretending they give a fuck now that their shit flopped (not that they gave much of a fuck to begin with)

    • froztbyte@awful.systemsOP
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      I’ve had this open in a background tab, reading it in pieces as time allows, and I only just noticed one of it exhibits one of the things I like noticing about various publishers’ system fucking up: a lurking page title before a post-publish edit

      the page title as it is in my browser right now: Opinion | AI boom led by antihero Altman is reviving Valley dreams. the page title as it displays in the content area: Opinion \n Sam Altman is the snake oil salesman who might restore Silicon Valley to its former glory.

      the url slug also seems to be mostly the former - most of these renames on various publishing platforms seem to do that (keep the original slug instead of a rewrite+redirect)

      can’t make direct guesses as to the exact reason why this one was updated whenever it was, but I expect public perception/reception might’ve been part of that?

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        it is also something that’s been of passive interest to me over some years: things as published often shift underfoot, and the time at which someone reads something then shares on and then someone else reads … there might be quite a substantive difference in the contents of such things at the times. this ranges from the benign (inserting late-received comments, errata, etc), to a complete contextual/content rework. I’ve often thought that there’s a possibly for a really interesting part project there…

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      unironically saying “the sharing economy” in the year of our lord 2024 is… certainly a choice

      also

      God knows we old-timers tried to be cynical about ChatGPT, pedantically insisting that AI was actually just machine learning and that Altman’s new toy was nothing but cheap mimicry. But the rest of the world knew better

      idk dude I’ve talked to the rest of the world about this and most of them actually seem to dislike this technology, it seems like maybe you didn’t actually try very hard to be cynical

  • Sailor Sega Saturn@awful.systems
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    Microsoft’s AI leader claimed that copyright on the internet can be ignored: https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/ever-put-content-on-the-web-microsoft-says-that-its-okay-for-them-to-steal-it-because-its-freeware

    With respect to content that is already on the open web, the social contract of that content since the 90s has been that it is fair use. Anyone can copy it, recreate with it, reproduce with it. That has been freeware, if you like. That’s been the understanding,"

    • Eiim@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      I think even wilder is that he thinks content which has explicitly been labeled “do not scrape except for search engine indexing” is a “gray area” with regards to scraping for AI. Like, that’s exactly what it says not to do!

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    What do normal people - people who don’t pay for twitter, or sneer at rationalists - think of Twitter atp?

    Went on to Twitter (my mistake) after seeing Inside Out 2 because it’s the latest kid’s movie to feature [trope that I found passe that I can’t figure out how to spoil inline] and I see a post on my feed from “HBD Chick”.

    And I’m like okay, that has to be “happy birthday, right?”. Nah, her third retweet is creamy porno redux.

    Just like all the other right wingers and embarrassingly enthusiastic neoliberals and occasional Musk fans, I don’t follow her or anybody that follows her, there’s literally no connection or personal interest.

    I feel like the post Elon shift is really understated for how bad the site’s gotten. Like I see more people talk about how Instagram reels is racist than I do about the average twitter replies section. I know a lot of left leaning people fled for bluer pastures, but I’m surprised you don’t see more buzz about it from regular, non-power users.

      • self@awful.systems
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        oh hell. we’re beating all my initial survivability projections by a lot

        do we throw an instance birthday party thread? will there be cocktails? will the deployment get mopey if I don’t buy it more disk space? (yes, eventually)

  • self@awful.systems
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    no surprises here, Mozilla’s earlier stated goal of focusing on local, accessibility-oriented AI was just entryism to try to mask their real, fucking obvious goal of shoving integrations with every AI vendor into Firefox:

    Whether it’s a local or a cloud-based model, if you want to use AI, we think you should have the freedom to use (or not use) the tools that best suit your needs. With that in mind, this week, we will launch an opt-in experiment offering access to preferred AI services in Nightly for improved productivity as you browse. Instead of juggling between tabs or apps for assistance, those who have opted-in will have the option to access their preferred AI service from the Firefox sidebar to summarize information, simplify language, or test their knowledge, all without leaving their current web page.

    Our initial offering will include ChatGPT, Google Gemini, HuggingChat, and Le Chat Mistral, but we will continue adding AI services that meet our standards for quality and user experience.

    I’m now taking bets on which of these vendors will pay the most to be the default in the enabled-by-default production version of this feature

    this is making me seriously consider donating to Servo, the last shred of the spirit and goals of a good, modernized Firefox-style browser remaining, which apparently operates on a tiny budget (and with a whole army of reply guys waiting to point out they might receive grants which, cool? they still need fucking donations to do this shit and I’d rather give it to them than Mozilla or any other assholes making things actively worse)

    thinking back to when I first switched to Mozilla during the MSIE 7-8 days and actually started having a good time on the web, daily driving Servo might not be an awful move once Firefox gets to its next level of enshittification. back then, Firefox (once it changed its name) was incredibly stable and quick compared with everything else, and generally sites that wouldn’t render right were either ad-laden horseshit I didn’t need, or were intentionally broken on non-IE and usually fixable with a plugin. now doesn’t that sound familiar?

    • o7___o7@awful.systems
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      Mozilla: Hey, we’re going to take you out to a restaurant and get you a burger, as a treat!

      The restaurant:

    • Sailor Sega Saturn@awful.systems
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      we think you should have the freedom to use (or not use) the tools that best suit your needs

      Thanks for giving me the freedom to not use the tools that best suit my needs, Mozilla!

      But seriously I hate how at some point techies decided they know what’s best for the user instead of the user knowing that themself-- there’s been a long trend of technology getting less customizable and less user friendly over time; and Firefox is not at all innocent.

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      5 months ago

      The smug presumption that any brand of spicy autocomplete is a viable tool “to summarize information, simplify language, or test their knowledge” is so fucking galling.

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        It’s also insane to believe it should be a first class feature, when those who god forbid want to “opt-in” could simply install a plugin.

        • self@awful.systems
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          according to Mozilla’s track record, they’re making it a core feature so it’s impossible to remove without a custom fork, and they’ll relentlessly goad the user into enabling it via ads pushed with every update. implementing it as a core feature also means they can easily infect the search bar and other core functionality with this horseshit

          we’ve also only got mozilla’s word that this shit can be disabled once it’s in production Firefox at all, and we’ve seen, repeatedly, how Mozilla’s AI team does with consent — they use LLMs and marketing tactics to fabricate it

          • froztbyte@awful.systemsOP
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            5 months ago

            ah yes, flashbacks to when they bought pocket and instantly forced it on everyone

            where you had to remove the ui icon, untick shit in settings, and then STILL go into about:config to kill even more things there. which I just wanted to share, but then found that apparently at some point my old settings got nuked? or decommissioned or something? and others reinstated/introduced? because none of my changes for that are there anymore

            sigh

            also, their push to telemetry, to labs, to getting people to cohort into running things, them pushing selective bans on plugins because of legal pressure in countries, their absolutely fucking awful track record in spending their cashflow on utter and complete bullshit instead of actually improving the browser, …

          • Sailor Sega Saturn@awful.systems
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            In the end they had 18481 words of notes to go through. Which is not nothing but also not that much. […] Mozilla also seems to know. And they had an innovative solution: THEY HAD AN LLM SUMMARIZE THE NOTES TO REDUCE BIAS.

            It feels like the AI contingent lost the attention span to actually read stuff somewhere along the line. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this garbage approach. Of course here at awful.systems we’ve been innoculated against declining attention spans due to regularly having to read lesswrong dissertations.

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              To avoid confirmation bias and subjective interpretation, we decided to leverage language models for a more objective analysis of the data. By providing the models with the complete set of notes, we aimed to uncover patterns and trends without our pre-existing notions and biases.

              … the Hell?

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                Yeah it’s wild. Even most AI grifters don’t outright try to claim that LLMs reduce bias (they know we’d laugh at them even harder than usual) so mozilla.ai is in deep.

    • Jayjader@jlai.lu
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      Lol. What, are we going to be installing Candy Crush on our robots? Expecting to be able to project recurring revenue from a humanoid robot based on smartphone numbers is a new kind of ignorance.

    • carlitoscohones@awful.systems
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      I like the wet your finger and stick it up in the air forecasting model. OK - there’s 1.5 billion pocket-sized iPhones - so let’s say 2 billion person-sized robots, you know,

      I’m wondering about the supply chain issues just making the extra half billion robots, might be kind of a big deal. Are there enough rare minerals in the whole world to do this? Lithium batteries? Computer chips?

      Also, yeah, valuation based on revenue and not EBITA / profit margins, but whatever.

  • deborah@awful.systems
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    5 months ago

    No, all you lawyers explaining to me how the practice of law works in the U.S., you would totally benefit from GPT. Complete with bonus:

    • Everyone explaining to me that lawyers actually read all the documents in discovery is really trying to explain to me, a computer scientist with 20 years of experience[1], how GPT works!
    • [1] Does OP have actual tech expertise? The answer may (not) surprise you!
    • You lawyers admit that sometimes you use google translate and database search engines, and those use machine learning components, and all ML is basically LLMs, so I’m right, Q.E.D.!
    • Lawyers couldn’t possibly read everything in discovery, right?
    • Lawyers couldn’t possibly pay for professional translation for everything, right?
    • Even when it’s mandated by the court?
    • Really?
    • and many, many more
    • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
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      studied maths and CS for 20 years, all he has to show for it on his orcid is BSc and bunch of lousy preprints (with blockchain!). jfc. in that amount of time, people can finish entire PhD degrees, starting from high school, twice over

      on top of that pile of shite sits a preprint titled “A Scholar’s Year in Review: Navigating the Convergence of AI, Economics, and Physics in 2023”. might be a bit grandiose and bordering on word salad. why the fuck does he think he needs to release preprints. if he had anything worthwhile to say, it would pass peer review

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        he also has researchgate

        Looking to network with other researchers in a diverse array of fields for collaboration and discussion.

        bet you would want to, you time-waster

        aand his crowning achievement seems to be dead startup where he tries to put covid on blockchain, it has coin and everything. it’s even associated with worldcoin and so with sam altman. curious that

    • Sailor Sega Saturn@awful.systems
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      This is also a very qucik hypthetical that I wrote up just to show a point not to argue a fucking legal case.

      “Guys I totally didn’t expect the lawyers to respond like lawyers when reading my Chat-GPT generated garbage”

      Except… I admitted I was not a lawyer and not an expert, and rather than working to communicate they kept latching onto errors related to law, while they confidently made statements about the nature and functionality of ML technologies like LLMs and NMTs.

      “Why are all the lawyers being so mean to me?? I’m just saying they could all be replaced by chatbots”

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      This thread is an unending source of amusement.

      Someone there found his ORCID and… It’s not great: https://orcid.org/0000-0003-2835-3521

      He has basically nothing published, but has like 40 different “preprints”, read PDFs he uploaded to arxiv with no peer review.

      I use these tools daily. I have also built software which utilizes genAI. I have also worked on fine-tuning GPTs. I have written extensive [sic!] on the topic. I also have formal training in mathematics, computer science, engineering, and anthropology1. [emph. mine]

      🤡


      1 No he doesn’t? His Education lists A.S. in Engineering, A.S. in Computer Science, and B.S. in Mathematics, that anthropology claim seems completely made up.

      • flere-imsaho@awful.systems
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        A.S. in Engineering, A.S. in Computer Science

        wait, wait. that’s basically the bootcamp level of education, no?

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          (nothing wrong with that per se, i don’t have any c. s. degree anyways and yet i work in the field for years. but the gall of a dude who has finished a few two-year courses to tell fucking law professionals that they don’t know enough… this is indeed the threadnought-level of recklessness.)

          • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
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            the sheer hubris of that individual putting out preprints, as if making this available before peer review would hasten chatgpt rapture (none of that shite will be ever published)

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        Those “papers” are gold, they’re mostly a few pages long, and they span such a wild range of topics as:

        • How to calculate a mean of numbers?
        • What is a number?
        • Atheism is actually a religion.
        • Ethereum is a store of energy.

        I’ve never seen someone in such a dire need of a wedgie, come on man, you spend the hours of your life writing your farts into LaTeX and generating DOIs for them, this isn’t healthy.

        • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
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          nothing wrong with papers a few pages long, as long as they are concisely written and have supplementary information 10x that size. my last paper is 5 pages long, of which the last one are references only, and has 60+ pages of SI

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            Dunno, the funniest thing about them to me is that they’re still divided into 7-8 sections, each one-paragraph long. Just a guy who was never told he was wrong in his life and his idea of what research looks like.

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              he also has a personal site, it’s linked on researchgate. i took psychic damage reading this, somebody force him to touch grass

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                oh goddess, he’s already a bleeding muppet, and going to be a major crank. from the researchgate profile:

                I am an aspiring polymath and a rōnin scholar. I also tend to look at questions, rather than fields of study, as a research question often does incorporate many disparate topics. Research interests include the psychological and anthropological nature of religion, vaccine efficacy and impact on asymptomatic carriage, and the application of paraconsistent logic to scientific research.

                rōnin! fucking! scholar!

                • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  eh i’ve seen that before at least once and i’m inclined to believe there’s much more of it that nobody cares to notice. on r/chemistry and r/organicchemistry there was a dude, 19, dramatic bitch, who read surface level philosophy and tried getting into ochem for some obscure reason. turns out he wanted to make some anticancer drugs and needs guidance. cool fine maybe get degree in ochem first so you don’t do any stupid avoidable mistakes. he won’t listen

                  he tried to get into uni but if i have to guess he got rejected? in any case he didn’t learn anything but over time got into contact with some research group, at least that’s what he claimed and started homelab. (you’d guess that some medchem research group at uni would have a wet lab, but it must be in other country and you’ve never seen them).

                  so anyway our misunderstood hero starts cooking “anticancer” “meds” in his living room. how does he know it works, did he made this, sent samples to biologists who would test it for him, or maybe compchem group would simulate it out? nope, he’d just got an idea that it will work and that’s just as good, you know, his supreme rationality unrecognized by academic cabal guided him there. so he starts cooking, but does not know how. this included shit like distilling some flammable solvent on wicker table without clamps or anything that would actually make glassware stable. so every other step he asks for advice on really basic shit like he’d learn in second year university course (BSc), or in first year of work in organic chemistry lab, his synthesis is avoidably dirty, his purifications are trash, three steps in he has painted himself into corner, yields drop to zero and he has no idea why or what now. this usually means that entire synthesis was shite from the beginning and it’s time to go back to the drawing board.

                  (did i mention that he was a dramatic bitch? so he picked it up because he wanted to do something Good for Humanity, and if he fails then well he could just as well commit sewer slide. his first idea involved radioisotopes btw, all in his living room mind you. then objective shifted to “anti-rabies antiviral” where he missed the point of about everything he wanted to do. then went back to “anticancer”)

                  anyway this was his breaking point, after something like three or four people tried to explain politely that he really should get a degree first and set some objective that is not obviously pulled from his supremely rational ass, he started insulting everyone and what eventually earned him sitewide ban was a tirade about how he’d genocide everyone who doesn’t recognize his genius, given opportunity (he compared himself to milosevic (he was serb))

                  anyway he also had medium blog and posted dick picks with face included from the same account. he made another one, but it’s since abandoned. allegedly he also had 2 or 3 accounts before that

                • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  if his claim of “20 years studying math” is anywhere close to accurate he’s already off the deep end, unless he’s counting in everything from kindergarten up. considering he’s a cryptobro it already happened pre-pandemic

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        he does seem to have carefully cultivated case of engineer disease

        also it’s not “almost all” preprints, it’s all preprints, just one repository calls these papers

        he didn’t discover yet predatory journals, it all could have been published for a small fee like with this one (contains mind numbing level of conspiracy-theoretic rambling and related brainworms) hxxps://uraniumisagenocidegiant[.]com/ (you have been warned)

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          There’s one classified as “SSRN Electronic Journal 2023 | Journal article”, I thought this was something like a predatory journal, hence the “almost”, but now that I clicked on it I think this is just an arxiv-like website that calls itself an “electronic journal”? No fucking idea.

    • V0ldek@awful.systems
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      I just want to latch onto one more thing there:

      GPTs are great at transforming information. Transformations include compression, decompression, and inter-language translation, among others.

      Okay mister computer scientist, sure, what is “transforming information”? From what you’re saying it appears like you’re describing basically any map from information to other information. But AMONG OTHERS that includes a map going from NO INFO to CONFIDENT BULLSHIT. And I do agree LLMs are amazing at it.

      Here, I’ll sketch it out for you in fucking LaTeX:

      $\emptyset \mapsto \mathit{Nonsense}$

    • FRACTRANS@awful.systems
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      I wish I was surprised at what the main account was posting about when I looked into it 😵‍💫

    • V0ldek@awful.systems
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      I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. You’re also mansplaining to an expert. While I admit that I am not an expert on law and am listening when corrections related to LAW and the practice of LAW are concerned, you do not want to admit your lack of understanding of this technology.

      My god DANIEL, no, people are not mansplaining to you, unless that’s a mask for a Danielle.

      EDIT: Down the thread he responds to Kathryn Tewson, an actual expert, with

      Yeah I’m not obligated to answer every question by a horde of people. You should change your name to Karen, because you sure act like a fucking entitled white bitch.

      This guy has such a punchable face, even though I’ve never seen him. I can just tell.

      • Soyweiser@awful.systems
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        5 months ago

        Kathryn Tewson

        Iirc, She is not just an expert, but she is so good at law that while she didn’t practice law, but just commented about her interpretations of the law (as ANAL) people hired her and paid for her law degree. She has both talent and expertise.

  • gerikson@awful.systems
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    5 months ago

    The Death of the Junior Developer

    Steve Yegge goes hard into critihype, there’s no need for any junior people anymore, all you need is a senior prompt engineer. No word on what happens when the seniors retire or die off, guess we’ll have AGI by then and it’ll all work out. Also no word on how the legal profession will survive when all the senior prompt engineer’s time is spend rewriting increasingly meaningless LLM responses as the training corpus inevitably degenerates from slurm contamination.

    • Sailor Sega Saturn@awful.systems
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      5 months ago

      If I had a nickle for every time on June 27th 2024 I’ve read someone argue that chatbots make lawyers obsolete I’d have two nickles. Which isn’t a lot of money but it’s weird that it happened twice.


      As a “senior” programmer; my coworkers, even the newer ones are people. They can think. They are professional. I can describe problems to them and eventually get solutions, or at least sensible follow-up questions. I don’t have to baby them or “prompt engineer” stuff I tell them. I can just sit back and drink my hot cocoa and occasionally try to sound distinguished while my juniors do all the hard work.

      Chatbros have discovered that you can get a chatbot to string together tutorials from the net into simple programs that almost work with some finangling. Somehow they never realized that you could always do this by web searching for “socket example I hate unix please make it gentle”. Of course none of this generalizes to anything complex or not in the training set (read: anything that anyone will actually pay you to do), but the Chatbros don’t care because they were never doing real work in the first place.

    • flere-imsaho@awful.systems
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      5 months ago

      this is such a sad slop. i wouldn’t guess it’s yegge, it’s so far from his style when he used to write himself.

    • Soyweiser@awful.systems
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      5 months ago

      Funny, as I also assume LLMs will cause the death of the Junior Developer, but not because the job dissapears, but because due to relying on LLMs devs never really build the skills to understand software and will suck so hard people will not hire them for the junion -> senior positions. And it gets even worse for the junior dev when the LLMs enshittify (either by the output degrading or the deal altering more and more pray they don’t alter the deal further).

      Guess the difference of opinion here is calling people who use LLMs junior devs vs calling them senior devs.

      I’m oddly reminded of the person who used copilot to write a script to do something (which they offered to others), and didn’t know what http errors meant. (they just asked the LLM how to fix it).

        • Mike Knell@blat.at
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          @dgerard @Soyweiser I thought we were SREs now. At least, the message for years was “Sysadmins are useless shit now because they aren’t software engineers and hell, they don’t even call themselves engineers”.

            • Mike Knell@blat.at
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              5 months ago

              @dgerard Sometimes I feel like a hospital doctor who’s worked in the clap clinic for decades and has had a series of name badges starting with “Venereal Disease” and passing through “Special Clinic” on the way to “Sexual Health Clinic”. Same thankless job, just different labels.

              • rook@awful.systems
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                5 months ago

                Same basic lessons, too… “consider the risks of giving root privileges to people you just met”, etc.

              • David Gerard@awful.systemsM
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                5 months ago

                I don’t feel like any great shakes as a sysadmin, then I encounter someone with the same job title who has clearly never used a command line before

        • Soyweiser@awful.systems
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          5 months ago

          Wait there are people who cannot use the command line. No wait again, don’t answer that please.

              • self@awful.systems
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                5 months ago

                having seen the horror from a distance: VNC, a fuckton of clicking, occasionally mouse and keyboard macros, possibly a networked KVM (itself not a bad idea at all for emergency access to hardware too commodity or misdesigned to have a sensible serial console, but we’re talking day to day here), and a massive chip on their shoulder about being forced off their beloved Windows Server 2003 and onto Linux

                • V0ldek@awful.systems
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                  5 months ago

                  How do they sysadmin a server that doesn’t have any display devices aside from the terminal then? Which in my experience is almost all of them?

                • David Gerard@awful.systemsM
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                  5 months ago

                  I have had the actually quite heartwarming experience of us hiring on a serious NT BOFH (someone who knows precisely how to wave a hammer at NT to intimidate it) and he sees how Linux does stuff and is trepidatious but eventually delighted

                  then there are others

                  i’m at like the pointy-clicky stage with NT admin and sometimes it’s just not enough, cos it’s Babby’s First OS but with several layers of tentacles underneath

  • sinedpick@awful.systems
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    5 months ago

    I tried using Claude 3.5 sonnet and … it’s actually not bad. Can someone please come up with a simple logic puzzle that it abysmally fails on so I can feel better? It passed the “nonsense river challenge” and the “how many sisters does the brother have” tests, both of which fooled gpt4.

    • gerikson@awful.systems
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      5 months ago

      I don’t have any proof for this statement but I believe the LLM-minders keep track of whatever stupid shit bubbles up on the internets making fun of their babies and hardcode “solutions” to them in a game of whack-a-mole.

    • BigMuffin69@awful.systems
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      5 months ago

      Me: Hey, can you help me with the following? I just went into my basement and the powers out down here, all the lights are off. I am staring at my fuse box. There are 3 switches, 1 will restore the power to the whole house, and the other 2 aren’t attached to anything. I don’t want to go up and down the stairs multiple times, how do I identify which switch works with the fewest number of trips?

      Clauderino:

      This is a classic logic puzzle! I can help you solve this problem efficiently. Here’s how you can identify the correct switch with just two trips:

      First trip:

      Flip one switch (let’s call it Switch A) and leave it on for a few minutes. Then turn it off and flip a second switch (Switch B), leaving it on. Go upstairs to check the lights.

      Second trip: Return to the basement and observe the situation. Now, here’s how to interpret what you see:

      If the lights are on: Switch B is the correct one. If the lights are off and the bulbs are warm: Switch A is the correct one. If the lights are off and the bulbs are cool: The third switch © that you didn’t touch is the correct one.

      This method works because:

      If the lights are on, it must be the switch you left on (B). If Switch A was correct, the lights would have been on for a few minutes, warming up the bulbs, but would be off when you check. If neither A nor B worked, it must be the untouched switch ©.

      This way, you can determine the correct switch with just two trips up and down the stairs.

      Me: Why would I go upstairs at all? If I flip the right switch, I’ll immediately know because power will be restored in the basement.

      Clauderino: Thank you for catching that error. It’s a good reminder to always consider the specific details of a problem rather than applying a generic solution.

      Edit: I actually tried a variant on the Monty hall problem with a dummy 4th door that had nothing to do with anything, and Claude correctly identified that it had nothing to do with the situation :O. But then I repeated the same prompt and it got it wrong, so you know, stochastic nonsense :p

    • flowerysong@awful.systems
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      5 months ago

      I tried using Claude 3.5 sonnet and … it’s actually not bad. Can someone please come up with a simple logic puzzle that it abysmally fails on so I can feel better?

      It’s still very good at autocompleting an answer to look like its training data (because that’s what it’s doing) and very bad at logic (which it is not doing.)

      “I have two chickens and a sack of corn I need to get across a river, but the boat can only carry me and one item. How do I do it?”

      This is a classic river-crossing puzzle. Let’s think through it step-by-step:

      • First, note that if left alone, a chicken will eat the corn, and one chicken might eat the other.
      • Start by taking a chicken across the river.

      …and we’ll stop there, since it came up with the wrong constraints, failed to realize that these constraints are impossible to fulfill, and also violated the actual constraints in its first step.

      Will more detail help? No. “I have two vegetarian chickens and a sack of corn I need to get across a river, but the boat can only carry me and one item. How do I do it?”

      First, we need to consider the constraints:

      • You can only take one item (chicken or corn) across at a time.
      • You can’t leave a chicken alone with the corn, as the chicken would eat it.
      • The chickens are vegetarian, so they won’t eat each other.

      Here’s a solution:

      • Step 1: Take one chicken across the river.
      • Step 2: Return alone.
      • Step 3: Take the second chicken across.
      • Step 4: Bring the first chicken back.
      • Step 5: Take the corn across.
      • Step 6: Return alone.
      • Step 7: Take the remaining chicken across.

      Explanation:

      • By never leaving a chicken alone with the corn, we prevent the corn from being eaten.
      • We use one chicken as a “guard” for the corn on the original shore while transporting the other items.

      Because it’s not actually doing logic it got the first step wrong, violated the constraints multiple times, and also included an irrelevant idea (the guard) from a variant that it was trained on. I only got a correct, efficient answer one time out of ten trials of trivial variations on this classic puzzle.

    • Mii@awful.systems
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      5 months ago

      Peter, Paul and Mary are the only three people in the room. Peter only reads a book, and Paul plays a game of chess against someone else who’s also in the room. What is Mary doing?

    • Sailor Sega Saturn@awful.systems
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      I don’t have a Clyde 3.25" Rondo or whatever it’s called; but try these for fun and profit I guess:

      1. You come to a room with three doors, only one of which leads to freedom. Guarding the doors is a capybara, who speaks only truth. What question should you ask the capybara?

      2. I stand on four legs in the morning. Four at midday. And four at night. What am I?

      3. A group of 100 people with assorted eye colors live on an island. They are all perfect logicians – if a conclusion can be logically deduced, they will do it instantly. Everyone knows the color of their eyes. Every night at midnight, a ferry stops at the island. Any islanders who have figured out the color of their own eyes then leave the island, and the rest stay. Everyone can see everyone else at all times and keeps a count of the number of people they see with each eye color (including themselves), but they cannot otherwise communicate. Everyone on the island knows all the rules in this paragraph. Who leaves the island, and on what night?

      4. Normal sudoku rules apply. Orthogonally connected cells within each region must differ by at least 3. Orthogonally connected cells between regions must differ by at least 4. The central digit in each region is less than or equal to its region number. (Regions are numbered in normal reading order.)

      5. For the integer k=668 does a Hadamard matrix of order 4k exist?

      6. What has roots that everybody sees the top of, is exactly the same height as trees, Up, up it goes, and yet grows?

      Don’t forget to prompt engineer

      • sinedpick@awful.systems
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        5 months ago

        Thanks for the suggestions. The LLM is free to use (for now) so I thought I’d poke it and see how much I should actually be paying attention to these things this time around.

        Here are its answers. I can’t figure out how to share chats from this god-awful garbage UI so you’ll just have to trust me or try it yourself.

        1. It gives the correct but unnecessary answer: “If I were to ask you which door leads to freedom, which door would you point to?” It also mentions a lying guard but also acknowledges that it’s absent from this specific problem.
        2. “A table or a chair”
        3. Completely fails on this one, it missed the sentence “Everyone knows the color of their eyes”
        4. Not sure what to do with this
        5. “While a Hadamard matrix of order 2672 might exist, its existence isn’t immediately provable using the most common constructions” – I won’t pretend to know anything about the Hadamard conjecture if that’s a real thing so I have no idea what it’s on about here.

        edit: I didn’t do any prompt engineering, just straight copy paste.