Feeling pretty lucky that the “free shots” when I went were apparently actually ethanol. Better to be careful but when you’re a few drinks deep, a little high and floating down a river on a tire inner tube, bad decisions do happen.

In Vang Vieng, stick to the beer and avoid any of the swings, slides and other bullshit at these riverside bars. I saw one guy literally in a full body cast because of this shit.

Now what political party does this remind me of… hmmm…

The US is a fucking joke. Biden should be ashamed of himself

I meant to comment on the data in the context of ‘biggest bar’

I didn’t even pay attention the post title for some reason, I just went straight to the graph! But yeah the population pyramid shows the issue with that claim.

Anyway, no worries and no harm done! I appreciate the clarification

Important points! It was just an off the cuff comparison

IMO, it’s not a great data set to claim Israelis are intentionally targeting children, but it is pretty good for saying they are not intentionally targeting military-age men.

Agree completely. I don’t think they’re intentionally targeting children but it does not look like they are targeting any subgroup in particular.

My original intent was just to say it looks pretty close to what you’d expect if you just dropped bombs at random. I might look to find better data later on

Unfortunately the genders are on opposite sides here but compare these two graphs and tell me the bombing is not indiscriminate

It’s been over a year since Israeli government officials announced that they were going to starve Gaza. They hold up aid for no reason. They massacred people collecting flour. They destroyed aid convoys they knew about and coordinated with. They have been doing exactly what they said they would and all America has done is make them pinky swear it would get better.

They will do nothing about this. Not because they will believe the lies Israel tells, but because they fundamentally do not care.

I really didn’t.

Edit: meaning I am not American and if I was I would have voted Harris, not that Trump is not significantly worse.

Over 50% of the god damn country voted for a man who has so many major, should-be career ending flaws we don’t even need to list them anymore. If he kicked a puppy it wouldn’t even make the top 10 worst things he’s done. The democrats lost to the stupidest president of all time, a man who’s entire economic policy revolves around tariffs that he fundamentally doesn’t even understand and who cannot seem to open his mouth without lying.

…and you’re here dunking on the people trying to oppose America’s blatant complicity in genocide. Well, you sure showed them.

So it is going to be incredibly expensive to remove immigrants and… err… reduce GDP? This is the man America trusts with the economy because something something tariffs something something eggs

There were undoubtedly some right wing/pro-Russia agitators trying to push the message that they’re “just as bad” and likely some genuine believers saying this too, but the vast majority were not saying this. Most people opposed to Harris/Biden on this issue were simply opposed to the wholesale murder of innocents, and understood that Trump would be worse (e.g. the uncommitted movement said this explicitly).

From my perspective what was much more common was the use of this exact line of reasoning (like your post) to ignore/sideline people with legitimate humanitarian and political concerns. I can speak for myself: I oppose what I see as a genocide and America’s complicity in it chills me to my core. I am not stupid enough to think Trump is better or even the same, and from the others I saw making this argument on Lemmy at least, they didn’t seem to think that either.

In fact to the extent I tried to influence others it was to push the democrats to be better and hopefully actually win the election.

That didn’t stop the accusations, though. I often explicitly wrote that Trump is worse and advocated voting dem, but it didn’t make a difference. In fact just before and after the election, one user was convinced I just hated the democrats and was trying to suppress the vote.

I’m worried that the discussion is a right wing disinformation campaign designed to make us tear each other apart. I cannot find any legitimate politician (even far left ones like Bernie Sanders, AOC, etc. etc) that would have pushed the message of ‘Joe Biden / Kamala is just as bad as Trump on the issue of Gaza’.

So 1) no legitimate politician pushed this message because it is a straw man. I agree with Bernie and AOC.

2. I would argue the disinformation campaign was mainly running in the other direction. Apologists for the democrats’ stance on this acted as though everyone who criticised the democrats was in fact using the straw man argument, and often implied it was a right wing/Russian misinformation campaign.

3. The effectiveness of any genuine right wing agitators on this is dependent on the fact that people like me exist who have a genuinely different position on this than the dems. They stoke the division and let us fight it out. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t push back on any claims that “they’re the same” and it doesn’t mean I should avoid voicing my opposition to genocide. What it means is, unless I respect that you are just opposed to false claims (“they’re the same”) and you respect that I am simply opposed to the killing of children (And not singing from Putin’s hymn sheet), then we will tear each other apart.

Who meme’d this? Where did you hear it? Was it Twitter? TikTok? Reddit? Facebook? Instagram?

It was “memed” on the fucking news, for over a year now. It is not a meme, it is the reality we’ve all been living in which two groups of dishonest actors wanted to influence. The right/agitator influence of “they’re just as bad” and the left/democrat influence of “these people support Trump/work for Putin.” The dems wanted the issue buried so they didn’t have to focus on what was clearly their weakest area. Because they have supported the killing and deep down, I believe they understand that this is morally unconscionable.

Anyway, just my two cents. If you take a step back from the election and just look at this as a disconnected political issue I would hope that we actually pretty much agree. So why would people like me be the enemy?

Maybe Trek was just a few years off on the Bell Riots

I always make this mistake. I will leave it there for shame

Unfortunately, at some point you have to come to terms with the fact that you’re sharing your country with a bunch of racist morons, and them plus the group who shift with the wind, don’t check candidates’ promises against the facts and apparently have no moral principles equals enough people to win the election.

It is fucking depressing. I feel for you all. When Britain showed it’s true colours I left the country. Same problems, fortunately not as bad an outcome (although still pretty bad).

I hope the DNC learns from this. They won’t, but I hope they do anyway.

Actually sounds cool!

So in cases like this I’ll just drop a link proving my point

Would be interesting to see it…

which you either won’t respond to or will write thousands of words defending your position from 4 months ago or whatever

And now you’re assuming I’m an asshole again? You must see the possibility that you’re misremembering something and have completely got my intentions/beliefs wrong?

If you can find me praising Trump or saying vote for him (or not to vote at all) even one time I will admit I’m wrong. But I literally never have and never would.

I hope Harris wins and we never have to listen to him again. And I can’t wait to be able to talk about Gaza without this getting in the way.

Now you are just lying.

Hmm tagging anybody who doesn’t agree with you as a “zealot” makes you seem like the zealot.

I hate Trump. Take a look through my comments.

It had a horrible tone so I skipped it.

Sorry for the tone. But you are accusing somebody of lying because you insist on painting others as ridiculous caricatures instead of engaging with them in good faith and it pisses me off. It doesn’t matter what tone you take doing this, you are the problem.

I am absolutely astounded that I can be falsely called an “anti Biden zealot” and this is not “uncivil” but my initial comment was.

It’s funny how you can flat out accuse someone of lying about their vote because you simply don’t believe them and that is totally fine, but when I pointed out the issues with doing that this is “uncivil” and must be removed.

This person told you how they voted. The only reason you don’t believe them is because you have been lied to and you have bought into the lies. People mad about the current line on Gaza are generally not voting Trump, they are just mad at Biden and Harris. Perhaps if you have a zero sum mindset this is difficult to understand but it really is very simple.

Step 1: FOLLOW US LAW AND STOP GIVING THEM WEAPONS

Let’s see if she ever gets this far. I am not holding my breath

This is exactly why this discussion is insufferable. You have literally been told how this person voted but you are so convinced by your own bullshit (ie that anyone mad about US support for genocide must, for some god damn reason, support Trump) that you don’t even believe it.

I cannot wait for the 6th so that we can have this conversation without it getting sidetracked by overly loyal democrats condescendingly explaining how first past the post works as if we don’t know already.