cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/21529010
Pro-Palestinian voters are facing a moral dilemma.
Punishing Democrats is a bonus extra if Democrats actually cared about losing votes. For me a vote for Harris is a vote for genocide. That’s why I am voting for Jill Stein and the Green Party.
Note: anyone who goes “but Trump” is getting blocked. The Democrats had 12 months to stop the genocide and chose not to. Harris could have distanced herself from it and chose not to. The genocide is worse than the last time Trump was president. The only way liberals see Trump as worse than genocide is if they see us as less than people.
Harris may be able to be pressured to take a morally justifiable position on Israeli war crimes after the election is over. Trump most certainly will not, and will cheer on the genocide.
Jill Stein will do nothing, because she will not win.
In 2020 I was told we could push Biden left.
Do you think we’d have had more success pushing Trump left in 2020?
Trump wasn’t president, I never voted or will ever vote for him. We had zero success pushing Biden to stop the genocide why do you think we will have any success with Harris?
Israel’s treatment of Palestine has certainly been unacceptable for much longer than Biden’s presidency, but their current bout of genocide is much more recent. The DNC has been faced with a political decision about whether it’s a greater risk to alienate centrist Israel supporters or leftist Palestine supporters in an election year when the literal collapse of any semblance of American democracy is on the table. The stakes, domestically, literally could not be higher. If we lose, it’s likely to end in either a generation of extreme fascist authoritarianism or outright civil war to prevent it. We’re very likely to have two supreme court seats coming up in this next term, which would give Trump five appointments to the supreme court, as well as the opportunity to dismantle any semblance of anything good the US has achieved in the past generation.
Biden was faced with an impossible choice, and so is Harris. But that danger will literally evaporate on November 6th. At that point, a narrow margin of support isn’t a matter of life or death for the preservation of some semblance of American democracy.
The US has overwhelming military dominance and an incredible potential for force projection. That power falling into the hands of a fascist who cozies up to the world’s worst dictators would be an absolute disaster for the entire world. Unimaginable as it may be with the current atrocities being committed by Israel, it would be worse for Palestine. It would be worse for everyone.
Trump was bad enough the first time around, but he didn’t have the agenda he does now. He didn’t have a Republican party ready to burn down any chance of the US having legitimate governance in the next half-century without a civil war.
Trump winning at this point would be a global catastrophe.
When the storm has passed, we can at least try to pressure Harris. Is it guaranteed? No. But Trump is guaranteed to make it much much worse.
Harris at least snubbed Netanyahu. That’s a better sign than we’re seeing from anyone else in the running for office.
The DNC has been faced with a political decision about whether it’s a greater risk to alienate centrist Israel supporters or leftist Palestine supporters in an election year when the literal collapse of any semblance of American democracy is on the table.
Biden was faced with an impossible choice, and so is Harris. But that danger will literally evaporate on November 6th.
So you are telling me that enabling the genocide was an election-winning tactic? Then the Democrats never needed our votes. Heck, maybe if I send them my home address they can bomb me and win even more votes with centrist Israel supporters.
Do I think tiptoeing around the issue and maintaining the status quo is a tactic to retain the votes and donations of Zionists? Absolutely. It’s 100% par for the course of political game-playing. Do I wish they’d speak out against it and completely cut off all support for Israel? Also absolutely.
Do you not think the DNC is making a calculated political move to keep people who care more about supporting Israel than doing what’s right on-side?
Whether or not the DNC has their heads up their asses on their political strategy doesn’t lessen the reality that Harris has the potential to be pushed against Israel and has already signaled her disapproval of Netanyahu or that Trump has come out and told the genocidal monster to ‘finish the job’.
Who in Congress supports the policy that Jill Stein would want to pass?
You vote with your heart for a party that reflects your values. Never align with what you think is the lesser of two evils. They are both still evil. This is the problem with what is essentially a two party system like they have in the US. Forget the consequences. If you don’t agree with the policies of the two main parties, then vote for a third that reflects your values. Years ago, here in Scotland, the SNP were regarded as a fringe movement only for them to gain power to a point where they acquired an over-all majority under a system of Proportional Representation (a system that makes gaining an over-all majority extremely difficult). How did this happen? Over time and under the realisation that the two main parties didn’t reflect people’s values, they chose instead to vote with their hearts. This lead to the opportunity in a 2014 referendum to become an independent country. Sadly, the population was duped and decided to stick with the devil they knew, but the fight goes on. People in the US need to do the same. Genocide is never acceptable. It is a red line. If you vote for a third party and Trump gets in then your conscience is clear and a message has been sent. Then the fight goes on and you deal with that problem next. It’s small steps, one stage at a time. Certain things have to be regarded as unacceptable. It’s a case of “Non Serviam” regardless of the conditions.
well put and one more thing:
People in the US need to do the same … If you vote for a third party and Trump gets in then your conscience is clear and a message has been sent.
the SNP is an example of why both democrats and republicans fight 3rd parties from gaining a foothold on the voting ballots using things like peer pressure; friendly judges to pass down rulings against 3rd parties on ballots; and voter suppression.
your vote matters and it’s most effective if you don’t do it the way they want you to; the lesser evil is still evil.
Yeah, they did that here in 2014 with peer pressure and the likes. The most ridiculous thing that occurred was “The Vow” which appeared two days before the referendum in the shittiest of shitty tabloid newspapers, promising the people of Scotland new powers, more say and the political equivalent of a goody bag. It was so cartoonish I didn’t think people would fall for it, but some did, and it was enough to swing the vote. Needless to say “The Vow” never came into effect. Surprise! Surprise!
Kamala’s not promising anything, let alone horeshit, so my prediction is sadly a Trump win.
Kamala’s not promising anything, let alone horeshit, so my prediction is sadly a Trump win.
only american liberals believe she’s going to win; but even then it’s clear that most of them can feel the anxiety about her projected loss and; to be fair; she does have a decent chance at winning if the polls are as wrong as they were in 2016.
given that they figured out the disconnects since then and 2020’s polls were spot on; i hope that the sense of mutual aid is as strong now as it was back in the 1980’s during the last our government did little more than a public show of support while idly allowing people to die by the thousands during the hiv/aids scare.
Vote for Harris to keep democracy, push for rcv/voting systems that make third parties feasible as ballot measures.
If Trump gets in there is no next step, we’re in Nazi America. Good luck to everyone who’s not a straight white Christian male. Palestinian genocide guaranteed to continue, Trump has stated that he’d advocate for Netanyahu going farther. Ukraine falls to Russian invasion and is genocided. DRPK starts fighting SK since we wont protect allies and Taiwan falls to mainland China. Domestically, trans people are genocided, women lose rights to birth control, child labor returns, nothing is done to mitigate climate change, rent prices, etc. The blood of millions on your hands, only way out is civil war. :Clear conscience" my ass.
every single one of my identities is targeted in project 2025 and living through the hiv/aid epidemic proves that we can survive through mutual aid. we’ve literally been doing it for centuries and we’ve thrived well enough to push public acceptance for our issues and without the help of the democrats or the republicans or even the american government.
they’re trotting us out like show horses to distract from the genocide and they will keep doing it until it stops working; don’t feed into it.
I think you’re being a bit over dramatic. The US is already fucked. It’s Rome before the fall. If Trump gets in the inevitable decline will only happen quicker. The Democrats are wolves in sheep’s clothing who merely slow this decline. A two party system controlled by the same lobbyists is only an illusion of democracy. Until the American people break out of that, there’s no hope. I don’t hold out much hope for America. The collapse has been on the cards for decades. A country gets the president it deserves. The US is built on greed, corruption, decadence, fraud and imperialist ideology. Everyone else in the world can see it for exactly what it is. Goodbye America. The experiment failed.
Trump was already president once does that mean its already nazi America?
It might not be a pleasant choice. But it’s not the first nor the only occasion to make a choice of candidate in this election cycle.
US citizens are also voting for house representatives, and senators. They can also vote in primaries to select who is going to be the party’s candidate for a specific seat.
I know the election cycle is artificially drawn out to induce political fatigue, but after the election we need to push for electoral reform at the state level so we can vote how we want.
Democracy is not voting for the least worst option. We can have democracy, if only we demand it.
