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Tempered rage might come across as tranquil, but it would be nice to have hints in the narrative. Reminds me of this line about Bruce controlling the Hulk: “That’s my secret, Cap: I’m always angry.”
I struggle to consider myself a pacifist as the paradox of tolerance is a difficult thing to have to come to terms with and I’m fundamentally a flawed human being, but I so fundamentally hate the presumed human cost of “just doing business”. I am filled with a searing, incandescent rage at all times, fueled entirely by the hypocrisy of liberal ideology and the cruelty of conservatives. I’m burning up and trying to avoid melting down just getting through the day, surrounded by people who seemingly willingly refuse to understand nuance on hot issues or that complicated problems oftentimes require complicated solutions. I’m tired, boss.
The thing is, you can be full of rage and still be against violence. Expressing rage doesn’t have to be violent. People express rage in all sorts of non-violent ways, like writing or painting or sculpting.
My biggest weakness and most toxic trait is wanting to see bad people face consequences. That person weaving through traffic at high speeds without a turn signal, with no concern for the safety of everybody else on the road? Please drive off the road, crash, do something that drives home how selfish you are acting, and I hope it’s expensive.
Politician campaigning on hate and saying that religion punishes ‘wicked’ people? I hope a loved one suffers some horrible disease and dies in pain.
Vote for an anti-abortion law? Watch your wife or daughter die of something entirely preventable. Refuse to provide exceptions for rape? Do unto others and all that, you know?
Nazi/christofascist/white supremacist? Worm food. Slowly.
I fix things, that’s my whole driving purpose in life, and basically the only thing I’m particularly good at. I have never been very creative, I suck at writing , I’m not a great artist or sculptor or musician. It causes me so much pain and frustration to not be able to fix something, and so much rage to see people deliberately breaking things, doubly so when they delight in the suffering it causes.
I call this the Paladin Perspective. I want to be a pacifist but I can’t in good conscience call myself that. Because I know that in order to maintain peace there must be not only the open palm of acceptance, but also the closed fist of justice. And I am perfectly willing to administer that fist to someone who has earned it. In order for peaceful folk to remain at peace, there must always be someone standing guard against evil who would seek to exploit them. This has been true throughout all of human history and I don’t exactly expect us to pivot now. So the world needs Paladins. It needs someone willing to wield violence, or at least the threat of it, in the name of Good. The police force is supposed to fill this role but they’ve fallen from grace. Religious leaders have filled this role before in the past, but they too have fallen from grace. Lacking either of those or a suitable surrogate, some people take matters into their own hands. Sometimes this leads to a glorious revolution in which power is seized from evil and the evil is ousted. More often this leads to a cell, in some fashion or another.
So it bothers me, because on one hand, I dream of a world without suffering. A world completely without suffering, where no sort of guardian would be required. But I feel in my heart that that is impossible. So instead, where that dream should be, is instead a wish to punish wrongdoers. At the heart of things when I sit down and inspect who I really am, I want to hurt bad people. I want to punch nazis. I want to defend my people from Proud Boys with my right to bear arms. I want to beat the ass off every sitting US politician except for Bernie Sanders and I want to host a cookout for everyone with a net worth higher than $5M. These things invoke a sort of sick schadenfreude that I didn’t really know was in me, and it’s hard to square that with my desire for a free and safe world where no one has to suffer. I’ve been watching myself getting radicalized in real time over the last 8 years, and if I were someone less attentive to my internal state, I might not have ever noticed and taken steps to reign it in. Sometimes I feel it would be more morally correct not to reign it in. But I do no good to anyone in prison so I stay out of trouble.
It’s just a weird dichotomy, wishing fervently for a world without senseless violence but knowing damn well we’re going to require some sensible violence if we want to make it there. I would hope that all those who choose violence in service of good would share my same desire that it not become necessary. I know that’s not true, but a man can dream. But what it comes down to at the end of the day is, folks who say “violence is never the answer” are incorrect. It absolutely is a solution, one that solves most problems in fact, it’s just the last solution on the list. I will make every effort possible to talk and debate and deal and wheedle and compromise within reason, but when it becomes clear that violence is the path forward, I’m not afraid of that path. Woe be upon he who stands in the way of progress.
Does this make me a bad person? Does this make me no better than those I claim to oppose? In my opinion, which I respect, I’d say no. But truth is I don’t really know. If raising the sword in service of those who cannot makes me a bad person, then I think I’ll just have to learn to live with that. Because I can’t not do it. I will not stand aside and watch torture fall upon the backs of the innocent without meeting like with like. And if that makes me evil then I will stand tall for my own punishment when it comes due.
Slightly off topic, but I find it interesting that in two of your examples it isn’t directly the oppressor paying for their crimes directly, but someone (presumably?) uninvolved. Is there a reason for that? I’m all for karma, but it feels like this is still targeting innocents…
It’s why I feel so conflicted. It’s targeting those “the only moral abortion is mine” types in the only way they’ll feel it. How wise do you get an old Conservative man to understand how important abortion is without someone “innocent” (assuming they weren’t complicit) suffering from the consequences? I guess it’s punishment in a more Biblical sense than moral consequence, but they need to feel the level of pain they inflicted on people and then be met with the same “God’s plan” bullshit as they watch someone they care about suffer. I just don’t think they’ll ever understand otherwise
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What are you even talking about? Are you under the impression that the only way to take action is through losing your mind and raging?
Controlling your rage allows you to act rationally.
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Yeah, you’re right. What did non-violent resistance ever achieve other than liberate India, give people of color in the U.S. civil rights, free the Baltic states from the Soviet Union, end one-party rule in Czechoslovakia, topple the former Ukrainian regime and other things I could probably come up with if you gave me time?
So, I’m going to suggest India was actually more complicated.
It was non-violent, but with a strong threat that ‘you can’t keep us, China went red, Russia will help us too’.
Gandhi’s pacifism was the face the British put on it to make it look less like they’d been beaten by communism (the congress party was vaguely socialist , but mostly in name only, far less so than other, more hindu parties, it stood for corruption more than anything really).
Also the partition guaranteed neither country would be a major international concern for decades, as they’d be too busy dealing with each other.
You can say a lot about the British, but they were great at IR.
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So many hour-old troll accounts this morning…
“It’s strange how pain marks our faces, and makes us look like family.”
I still like the Doctor Who take on it. “Demons run when a good man goes to war.”
I once played D&D with a paladin who basically followed this. He was an Oath of Vengeance paladin. For the unaware, OoV paladins often have zero chill. They’re typically something akin to Batman with magic powers. My goal was to avoid that.
His oath had something along the lines of “Without the capacity for violence, pacifism is not a choice. Pacifism without choice is victimhood. I will choose pacifism whenever possible, but will not watch idly when people are victimized. I will ensure the victimized are made whole, and the victimizers know the pain they have caused.”
Basically, he would try his best to talk his way through encounters first. He would give enemies every opportunity to back down. He had incredibly high charisma to try and persuade, intimidate, or deceive others out of attacking. After all, he was attempting to choose pacifism whenever possible. But if he believed that a bully was victimizing someone, the gloves came off and he channeled all of his pent-up fury into making the bully regret their actions. And since paladins use charisma to cast their spells, his smites were painful.
The DM loved it, because it helped us avoid falling into the murderhobo trope that combat-oriented D&D players often fall into. It also gave him a chance to actually flesh out some of the NPCs who would have just been throwaway no-name combatants.
Yeah, although the Doctor is pretty hypocritical with his pacifism. Something which this quote sums up pretty well. He did kill several species after all.
The Doctor doesn’t call himself a pacifist, he just detests violence. If needed though, he will absolutely blow your shit up.
The other quote to go with that one was “Good men don’t need rules, you’re about to find out why I have so many.”
I thought Rory was the good man. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that episode.
It is, that was the twist - the Doctor is not the good man.
Demons worry when the wizard walks by.
“Amy Pond. Get. Your. Coat.”
I’ve expressed a similar sentiment as “it’s easy to be enlightened up on a mountain.” As in, big whoop to all the wise hermits who fled society to find peace: that’s not being above the problems of the world (except literally), it’s hiding from them and pretending that ignorance can be bliss again. The real work is maintaining peace and wisdom in the face of monstrous injustice.
The absolute state of the religion-understanders in this thread.
If you’ve never read one work about finding peace thru mysticism, why voice an opinion about it? I’m not here voicing an opinion on Finnish politics.
Tranquility is a real trait that some people have. It’s not a common one.
And those people are not necessarily pacifists. The issue is that the idea that you would get from movies and TV is that they are one and the same.
Hijacking this comment thread to say I appreciate you
Thank you!
It’s complicated.
As elsewhere stated, outward tranquility doesn’t necessarily indicate internal state. And even still, it is possible to exert some control over your emotions, it’s a skill that gets more effective with practice.
I myself am a fairly tranquil person. This is likely precisely because of very non tranquil conditions growing up. I’d wager this is the case for most counterintuitively calm people. You learn not to succumb to the initial stress response of panic or anger: take a breath, look at your situation calmly, determine an effective course of action, execute that course of action calmly and deliberately. Anger clouds your judgement, encourages you to make rash decisions. Whatever your problem, tranquility helps you to solve it cleanly without creating new problems.
Additionally, as your empathy grows, you have less and less anger towards individuals, as you recognize their transgressions are themselves symptoms of their own panic and anger. It’s hard to be angry at scared, lost, and lonely people clutching at ideologies designed explicitly to prey on their insecurities.
I think it’s best portrayed in The Invisibles where, after spending the entirety of the story building up an epic ideological war between the forces of authoritarianism and freedom, we’re told “We lied. We are not at war. There is no enemy. This is a rescue operation.” Daryl Davis fights intolerance without anger towards his potential converts.
So what does that leave us? Righteous anger at abstract ideologies and systems that ensnare insecure people into a web of hatred and vitriol. But anger isn’t useful against abstract ideologies and systems, they are cold and emotionless. Some might claim it is, but they’re conflating anger with resolve; anger can help maintain resolve, but it isn’t necessary. It is quite possible to be tranquil and resolutely opposed to tyrannical and hateful ideology. Personally, I think it’s more effective than visibly brimming with rage.
It’s resolution in my experience. My rage is the byproduct of belief made active. It is the choice every day to prove to those around me that a better world is possible and it begins with self fucking control
I’m no pacifist but I’m someone who believes humanity can be better and needs to seriously think when utilizing the power to harm
I, too, and a pissedifist.
Direct action?
Ghandi?
Nope.
It is not that I do not get angry. I don’t give vent to my anger. I cultivate the quality of patience as angerlessness, and generally speaking, I succeed. But I only control my anger when it comes. How I find it possible to control it would be a useless question, for it is a habit that everyone must cultivate and must succeed in forming by constant practice.
― Mahatma Gandhi
More like Benjamin Lay.
I tell people that I’m a pacifist in the same way that Bonhoeffer was.
How many of them know who Bonhoeffer was though?
Not many, but my hope is that anyone interested enough does a little research.
Bonhoeffer’s pacifism is a complicated matter. He believed in nonviolence, but also participated in a plot to kill Hitler.
To summarize him a little…. Sometimes we need to abandon our principles to care for others. My goodness is less important than the wellbeing of those who are oppressed.
Well put.
Sometimes we need to abandon our principles to care for others. My goodness is less important than the wellbeing of those who are oppressed.
None
Disgraceful!
I guess. I’m a fairly intelligent person, who is well educated, and decently well read. But I’ve never heard of them. I’ll have to do some reading I guess.
If you’re curious about the guy, he’s worth reading. His Letters and Papers from Prison and Ethics are the two dealing with all of this. Ethics is unfinished, because he was moved from a standard prison to a concentration camp before they eventually executed him.
To be fair I grew up in a religious household so he was a bit of a folk hero for us.
He was an interesting chap.
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pacifism is cowardly when inaction enables bad actors.
But pacifism isn’t inaction. It is action with the intent to do no harm.
not everyone values peace
The value of peace is social, not individual. You value peace when you know you have everything you want from the status quo. You embrace violence as a means of shifting conditions in your favor.
But violence comes at a grander social price. Simply embracing it because someone else has only compounds the costs.
the paradox of tolerance is not a paradox
The question of a socially acceptable degree of tolerance is a difficult one to answer philosophically and even more difficult to implement as social policy.
It is not strictly a paradox, but it is an unsolved problem.
don’t let the illusion of a peaceful society lull you into a vulnerable trance
The cost of violent action is what dissuades a violent response. People aren’t in a trance, they are taking a calculated risk.
never play fair with your enemy
Violating a social compact erodes trust. You reap a short term gain while everyone pays a long term price.
“Playing fair” is about establishing a social compact that everyone recognizes as beneficial. Violating broadly beneficial norms means accruing more enemies with whom you feel compelled to play unfairly.
the utopia that most considered a pipe dream became a feasible reality
The utopian era ended with WW1 and the industrialization of modern warfare. The 21st century has seen wave after wave of new investments in warfare, while domestic improvements and social welfare advances have ground nearly to a halt.
If there is a utopian future, it can only come with the abolition of international militarism. Otherwise, we continue to descend into generation after generation of escalating conflict and unchecked immolation of life and property.
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The utopian era ended with WW1 STFU with your poindexter BS. you know what the fuck i mean when i say utopia.
Buddy, you don’t know what you mean. These words have a historical context. They don’t just mean what you having bouncing around between your ears. Utopianism describes a series of real social movements that involved actual people organizing to build intentional communities. Its not just vibes.
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